Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

Oh, and btw the co-chair of that APPG is a Tory. But you don't seem to be panicking that the Tories are going to be bringing in blasphemy laws 🤔

Muslims account for 6.5% of the population. Not all of them voting age. The rest split between mainly apathy, labour or Tory.
This seems like a lot of mouth for not much backing.

Sunnis really hate Shia. Which is a whole story in itself.

Reminds me of the good of Catholics Vs Protestants back in the 70s Glasgow. But worse.

Exactly. That poor family who's daughter died in the canal was escaping these idiots in Iraq, where they threatened to kill them because he was Sunni and his wife was Shia. Fancy risking your life to escape these people only to find them being tolerated here, Imams being invited with open arms into mosques, making demands of governments to allow those Imams to influence votes!

*Licking the spotty tough - luckily the spotty youth

argh.

Now I'm no fan of the Church of England but I don't think this is a useful parallel. Firstly the lords spiritual have no party affiliation and they defo don't tell people how to vote. Secondly their role is usually as a 'moral break' on some of the government's more outre ideas e.g. the Rwanda Bill, which they did a great job in holding up and holding to the light of day. Thirdly, there's a big movement against them being there and I expect they'll be phased out within the next ten years, leaving only the law lords and party affiliates.

Therefore I suggest this is a poor parallel because

1. They don't see to influence votes as Muslim Vote would like imams to do
2. They do not propose legislation and do not hold enough seats to comprehensively block legislation unlike Muslim Vote which is seeking to propose and bring forward legislation in favour of Muslim practice and against atheistic practice
3. They play a moderating role, holding back rather than bringing forward new legislation

Or not seen it first hand. Not had their aunt threatened with arrest for having a lock of hair showing. Licking the spotty tough picked on the wrong auntie and got a blistering mouthful (so he ran off when he realised other women were stopping and squaring up to him - but there are the female ‘allies’ who are just as bad as the men).

Having your daily life scrutinised so that you don’t concentrate on the air pollution, power cuts and the tanking economy.

Well not really for example if Labour adopt the all party group’s definition into law

You don't understand what an APPG is, do you?

APPGs are basically cross party lobby groups. There are hundreds of them covering all sorts of areas of niche interest. They have no legislative or Parliamentary powers at all.

Suggesting that Labour is going to introduce blasphemy laws to make criticism of Islam a crime is batshit and bordering on paranoia.

If you look at major religions the world over, you'll find that the principles we claim as Christian are much the same in other faiths. They are societal tenets that support the survival of a society. The UK would function perfectly well as a secular state because those much vaunted 'Christian ' values are pragmatic rather than religious.

The reason religious rules don't work is people, not the faith itself.

Lobby groups like this put the fear of god into my MIL. Actually, they make her angry.

She hears men like this and worries that the hand wringers will ‘be kind’.

When you live through a religious revolution you tend to be wary.

A lot of posters aren't doing that though, they seem to be implying this vocal, extremist group represent all Muslims

Exactly. And then implying that Labour is somehow in thrall to such vocal, extremist groups.

Oh come on, I never said or implied Muslims are being treated the way Jews were in the 1930s. You're seeing a comment there that I didn't make. I'm saying the fear of another religion is the same. That fear is being displayed in very different ways though ie there aren't different laws for Muslims than for others. There aren't places Muslims aren't allowed to go. Jobs Muslims aren't allowed to have etc etc. Nonetheless, the fear of a different religion is still the same.

I am Jewish and pro-Israel. The granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who was the sole one from her family to survive. I wasn't trying to minimise the Holocaust! I was saying the fear of another religion is dangerous, and that was an example of another time a religion was irrationally feared.

I don't have a problem with criticising extremists of any religion. A lot of posters aren't doing that though, they seem to be implying this vocal, extremist group represent all Muslims. That's what I take issue with. People often treat all Muslims as though they're extremists. That's where the problems lie in my opinion.

But nothing is actually happening to change any of that. It is all a weird fantasy in some poster's heads.

All that has happened in reality is a tiny lobby group has drawn up a list of demands for Labour. Demands which Labour will ignore.

’compassionate universalism that recognises all people as equally deserving of love.’

Sorry but with family in Iran I’m not seeing this in religion.

’compassionate universalism that recognises all people as equally deserving of love.’

Sorry but with family in Iran I’m not seeing this in religion.

’compassionate universalism that recognises all people as equally deserving of love.’

Sorry but with family in Iran I’m not seeing this in religion.

For families who moved to the U.K. to escape this nonsense and chose to live in the U.K. because they liked the country, the traditions, the education system, culture, art and literature, theatre, shops, architecture, odd customs… and the freedoms it’s a bloody slap in the face.

Want to live like this? No that’s why we don’t live in Iran ffs…

Agree, IClaudine. It is frightening what nonsense people will preoccupy themselves with. It is reminiscent of the panic about 15 minute cities or the covid vaccination, but worse in that it causes people to focus on an identifiable group of people who are already vulnerable because of racism.

There are extremists and bigots in every religion (and in non-religious groups). But a stronger current in all major religions, including Islam, is a compassionate universalism that recognises all people as equally deserving of love.

I am disgusted you are comparing the rational concern about the rise of Islamic extremism in this country, with how the Nazis treated Jews.

in this scenario, it is the Islamic extremists that are the right wing fascists.

We have a serious issue here. The mass and unchecked immigration has created enclaves of people living a very different British life to the rest of us. There are more than 85 sharia councils in the UK. Men can divorce their wife verbally.. If a woman wants to divorce his wife that’s a more serious issue.

Rather than push for criticism of Islam to be a hate crime, moderate Muslims should be calling out those who do not wish to integrate, and who live by a different set of values.

This undercover documentary was released last year, and uncovers the attitudes of some of the women in extreme sections of society m.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcSn7BPzdI

32:00 Female preacher - “what the government calls extremism is being a good Muslim. ‘The vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values including democracy.’ That places every single Muslim in the category of extremist. You know why? Because the statement ‘La ilaha illallah’ (There is no God but Allah), that statement that makes you a Muslim. That is a rejection of democracy and the rule of law. Because that statement says la- you reject all other… any ruling.. any legislation, you’re rejecting to obey anything other than Allah. This is a fight against Muslims and Islam, that’s what we need to remember. This is the plan of the kuffar (disbelievers). It’s hard when you hear these things, it’s very difficult not to feel let down…. Allah says in the Quran do not be down, do not be depressed for you are superior. You are the best if you are believers. Allah will make you superior to these enemies, if you are believers…”

34:32 On the anti extremism planning. “they thought it was a plan to deradicalise people, God they got it so wrong. Because if anything more and more people are becoming what they call radicalised. If extremism is to have a voice or actions against British values and democracy they couldn’t have done anything worse… because this is really changing the way Muslims feel in this country.”

These and other issues should be discussed freely without people being worried about being arrested for "Islamaphobia" which it is feared Labour will introduce as a crime

Where is this fear coming from? When has Labour said it will do this? Why would it do this when there are already laws in place to combat racial and religious hatred?