Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

I’m Muslim and never even heard of this group until this thread, but I’m so sick of the horrible, nasty replies on any thread that’s even remotely related to Islam/Muslims, such as the poster who equates Sharia with terrorism 🙄

Lebanon was a majority Christian country until quite recently, please read some history, what has happened to christians in Lebanon in the civil war and subsequently is tragic and deserves a spotlight not dismissal

apologies this was for @pointythings

Well it depends really on how you define democratic decision making. At its core it's about a universal franchise in which people have freedom of choice without fear nor favour of external pressure applied by authority figures whether they be spiritual, marital, tribal or whatever.

The UK's ancestors fought hard to achieve this over many centuries and we are lucky to have it. In my home country it is not the case and I often think in this as in many other matters the British do not realise how fortunate they are.

I would not class the lords spiritual as being involved in democratic decision making as they do not exercise legislative power, do not publish manifestos, bring forward legislation, whip or vote in the Commons. Church and state were separated in 1891 in UK and have held that way ever since. A small number of lords spiritual sit in the Lords as a 'checks and balances' body, some do not like the second chamber, I personally think it's a good thing and they have blocked or watered down much populist legislation. Where the lords spiritual do make their feelings known in the House, it's actually very rare indeed, the Rwanda Bill was a rare exception and I am glad they did it.

Whether you meant to or not, you were making a parallel because someone said Mulsim Vote and your response clearly implied that the lords spiritual are a similar phenomenon whereas actually there are subtle but crucial differences which mean that it is not the same thing at all.

With the teeny tiny difference that those were majority Muslim countries to begin with. I am more concerned with extreme right wing influences in UK politics.

" I leave this thread safe in the knowledge that none of the crap you are predicting will ever happen".

That's what they said in Lebanon and Iran and that's just recent history.

To be absolutely clear, I am no fan of Muslim Vote, and I am totally against anyone attempting to interfere with, or influence, how individuals vote. This may not be a useful parallel, but I thought it was interesting that many posters are outraged at the thought of religion being involved in democratic decision making, without being aware that it is already happening (to one extent or another). A previous poster stated, "Religion has no place whatsoever in the laws and governance of a civilised society" and I was merely pointing out that this already happens in the UK.

Iran aren't bothering with Parliament. They are going straight to the mosques, sowing discontent, spreading radicalism and funding the preaching of hardline fundamentalist Islam. Even in my lifetime Islam has got more and more fundamentalist. And its because of outside influences. We give visas to Iranian hate preachers, while the government does nothing, moaning about small boats, full of people trying to flee their malign influence in their own cou tries.

Not wasting cash - putting pressure on politicians by creating the impression that people want this. Also, creating discord and tension = money well spent.

Yes it requires being specific. What ends in a conviction? A drawing? Stats? A statement?

I also question the idea that a religion needs to be accepted as benign

I don’t think heavily controlling religions are, wrt women and girls

Possibly or possibly not, but I do think that it is right to be suspicious of groups like this. I don’t subscribe to your frankly complacent, liberal, lassez faire attitude. Do you even read the papers? Are you aware of a Chinese state spy working in the Commons? Our freedoms and liberties are precious and have to be protected.

Here you go@Teentaxidriver

https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/apg/

Well if you did know, you would know they have no legislative or Parliamentary power. So Iran would be wasting its cash.

Well at least I know what an APPG is and its functions.

You really think Paul Bristow is in the pay of Iran?

Yup, IClaudine. I have NO idea what an APPG group is. Do you know how corrupt parliamentarians are? That would require some imagination on your part though ….

Another one who does not understand what an APPG is.

You are right. There was a report in one of the Sunday papers last month that Iran is fomenting religious tensions in the UK. I would imagine that some members of the APPG have received inducements to influence them in this matter.

Modern Islam says you can’t even draw a representation of Mohammed (although much earlier depictions of him - in a religious way - are in existence and that’s quite an interesting topic) therefore ‘insult’ and ‘offence’ may be very much in the eye of the beholder…

You have deliberately cut off the rest of the paragraph. It says:

Using the symbols and images associated with classic Islamophobia (e.g. Muhammed being a paedophile, claims of Muslims spreading Islam by the sword or subjugating minority groups under their rule) to characterize Muslims as being ‘sex groomers’, inherently violent or incapable of living harmoniously in plural societies.

The speech one isn’t very clear. Someone below said it included all X do Y and I don’t think answered on stats

As we’ve seen with the Scottish law what is actually illegal needs to be defined at some point, if not in law then by test case

Not that I want any of it, but pp seemed a bit more receptive to that one

As for religion generally my priority is women and children and I think some societies do worse on that count, often influenced heavily by religion

Oh for God's sake. Read the bloody thing again, it is not saying you can't criticise Islam or mention its history.

I give up.

I leave this thread safe in the knowledge that none of the crap you are predicting will ever happen.