DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

Grooming happens in plain sight.always trust your instincts and also openly say out loud to both of them you're far too big to be sitting on laps

I was groomed by my uncle and I wish my Mum had noticed the red flags and helped me.
Id trust your instincts. It was the sitting on his lap that would worry me the most.

Apologies! I read that as "unusual" sorry!

Ehhh?? It most certainly is weird to fancy family members/uncles

It's tricky to judge. I had a fun relationship with my Mum's brother all his life. He used to take me for days out when we were staying with my grandparents. He and his wife couldn't have children so both loved spending time with me. Sometimes just me and him if his wife was at work. Sometimes me and her.

I did sit on his lap at age 12. It was a running joke between us and I sat on his lap at age 40 and older. I can't remember how it started but at our first meeting after a while he used to screech to get me away from him as I forced myself onto his lap.

It could be as innocent as it was for us but you are right to be cautious.

OP they now teach in safeguarding training that most people's first reaction when something happens is to minimise or excuse it. We literally do not want to believe what we witness.
I surprised myself by reacting like this too. A good male friend was entrapped through paedophile hunters and filmed. He had been talking online to what he thought was a young teenage girl but was one of these men who trap paedophiles - not a tactic I agree with by the way.
I was told this by another friend and my first reaction was that he might have been filmed and accused but he would not have done anything. Then I watched the video and saw him admitting to what he was doing but saying he just wanted to be friends and the inappropriate messages were because she had a crush on him. He was in his early thirties, the pretend "girl" was I think 13. And then I knew I had been wrong and he was guilty.

I say this because I want you to know it is normal to minimise and under react. But you need to push through that and react appropriately. As parents we have to safeguard our children, including from family and friends we love. We would not allow a family member to transport our child in a car without a car seat. In the same way we can not allow grooming of our child.

Yes it is weird. Children are absolutely wired to feel disgust around sexualised behaviour with family members. That disgust is often eroded by the groomers and well meaning but naïve adults who enable abusers. That disgust becomes part of the internalised shame that destroys abuse victims emotionally.

Your update is more redflags.

You are right to be suspicious and your DH is under reacting massively.

Do not lwt him or anyone else doubt yourself.
Do not "be nice"

Even if she does "fancy him" he is the adult. if this was my DH he would be incredibly uncomfortable with the lap thing if it was his niece because its wildly inappropriate. he would probably have moved her to a seat or made an excuse to stand.

I really think he is grooming in plain sight and would have no problem making this a bigger issue (ie i wouldn't be going along with everyone inc myself and dd attending family parties with your step brother) and wont care if my DM was "upset" because he didnt fo anything / my mind is in the gutter or whatever...

I don’t know! I posted the same thing just after you before I saw this.

It’s not usual to fancy your uncles- or to fancy your family in general, unless there are some weird dynamics going on.

Or put a camera in the middle room.

OP,

I appreciate that you would rather rationalise this away, but unfortunately you have a predator as a step brother..just how far this has gone is a big worry if your daughter sees nothing wrong in sitting on his lap like its nowhere near the first time for them.

Your choices appear to be protect your daughter NOW...in fact there aren't any choices, no matter how much of a row it causes within the family.

Tread carefully though, or you might drive them into a secret ' no-one understands about us ' relationship.

I suppose only you really know her so know if it’s out of character. My daughter hangs off her Dad and me all the time but not Grandparents or anyone else despite being close to them so it would definitely raise alarm bells with me. Only YOU really know if this is off. Listen to your gut. Talk to her about grooming maybe and don’t leave her on her own with him.

It sounds like he's grooming her infront of you, to show he's "innocent and harmless" and make you trust him. I would be sitting DD down and explaining she's not in any trouble, but you fear he's grooming her and has he asked her to sit on his lap at his home, or called her beautiful before that occasion, etc. Maybe take her out for lunch and so she feels comfortable and safe with you only, wouldn't recommend taking her dad too, (too much pressure) and ask her gently.

After this regardless of her answer I'd nip it in the bud. Doesn't sound like anything positive is going to come out of this. I've been telling my DD since she was around 7 not to sit on men's laps, including men in the family and wouldn't let her hang around a man alone like this either.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

I remember watching a grooming video on Youtube (where vigilantes catch men who've arranged to meet an underage girl). This guy in his 40s turned up to meet a 14-year-old, and when confronted said "but I wasn't going to do anything; we're just friends." Someone then asked him "and what exactly were you planning to talk about with this 14-year-old girl? Justin Bieber? Make-up? Formula One?" It would be odd enough if 32-year-old man was friends with a 17-year-old boy. But a 12-year-old girl! No, no, no. He's either seriously weird or he has an ulterior motive.

Also, keep this in mind: he might be in furious denial about what he's up to. He might have convinced himself that they're just pals. Men do that all the time. Then when they're caught they tell everyone that 'she seduced me'. Families do this as well. When a husband or son is caught grooming an underage girl, or abusing the babysitter, or viewing indecent images of children, the family rally round. They come out fighting, claiming that he was depressed, that she seduced him, that someone hacked his computer, and so on.

Even when I have been with friend's and their young child has plunked themselves on my lap for the first time I am always slightly surprised, and it would show.
Sorry OP but your DD has sat on your Uncle's lap before, enough times for it to be "normal".

and can be dealt with quickly in a non confrontational fashion with a gentle push and a jokey "get off you lump"

I am amazed at those suggesting continuing guitar lessons in a room with you or DH. How much more obvious does your Uncle have to get?
Your DD is 12. The further this goes the harder it is to stop. Teenagers sneak away from parents to meet up with their adult abusers all the time.
My worry would be you would get to a situation where DD thinks the Uncle is her boyfriend and they are in love. Then it will be very difficult to stop even with police involvement as they will both lie.
You need to stop it now while it is easier to stop. Although it might feel hard to stop at the moment because it means confronting your Uncle, practically it is easier to stop now.

"I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again."

You mentioned missing red lines but as an initial reaction to an unexpected situation this was actually pretty quick thinking and she may have got the message that mum was not happy. Hopefully, he did too.

Always trust your gut! Have a chat with DD about potential dangers and maybe him if you can word it well. He sounds perfect for a teenage crush but hopefully he would know how to address it. It's good that he is reaching out to her.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the beautiful girl comment - she may have expressed concern about her looks, her ethnicity or anything along those lines and he's trying to build her confidence. My DD is also 12 and it's a right age for insecurity and bullying. DD has forgotten everything positive I've ever said to her and seems to be of the impression she is a gremlin that shouldn't be seen without makeup. It breaks my heart and he could just be helping.

Sitting on the knee is a concern though his reaction isn't.

"Adult males into Anime never sits quite right with me."

This is a whole genre and an adult male enjoying watching them is not an issue. My adult DH watches some. He and DD bond over them and some of them are memory lane for when he was a kid - the same as I watch Disney.

You need to find ways of making it clear to your step-brother that he will not get away with grooming your niece, if indeed that is what he is doing (and as others have said, sadly statistically it's not that unlikely).

• Guitar lessons happen in a room where you are present, or an open room like the living room
• No more going to gigs etc. with him or taking her anywhere without you.
• Keep monitoring her phone and find a way of signalling to him that you do this regularly.
• Have a conversation with your daughter about it not being appropriate for her to sit on adults' laps anymore.

Be firm, be present. If he is a predator, then he will get the message that this is not a safe environment for him to operate within.

The lap sitting. Most men would be extremely uncomfortable at this.

My brother is kind and generous with my dds. One is slightly younger than the OP's, one just turned 7. The 7 year old is still very much into laps and hugs and climbing on people she knows, if dd1 sat on brother's lap I would find it very odd - even more so if she was a year or so older. Brother is the sort of person who would not know how to react and be uncomfortable about this and would make an excuse to stand or hope that someone else asked her to move. I would be concerned if he didn't seem at all bothered though as it would be out of character behaviour for dd.

The comments about attractiveness made in front of the OPs dd are very inappropriate. I would do what many have suggested and be limiting contact and possibly contacting nspcc etc for advice on how to ask dd questions about his behaviour around her. And definitely make it clear to him that his comments are not appropriate so he knows you have noticed his behaviour.

@maay the fact he was comfortable with her sitting on his lap is a big red flag. It means she has sat on his lap before.
His hands by his side means nothing. The sitting on the lap thing is about a man's cock "accidentally" being in contact with a child's bum. There is no need for hands.
And the more you post the worse it gets. He is grooming her and you.

Absolutely This.

I'm an ex copper and this is a massive list of safeguarding red flags. Stop it, now