DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

Ground rules..???? Think it’s a bit last that, no? There is no world where a grown man asks a 12 year old girl (one whom he’s admitted to finding beautiful just makes it even worse!) to sit on his lap in an innocent way!

He’s the OP’s brother. We don’t have all the details. That might be necessary. It might not. Only she can decide. But the first step is a frank conversation with ground rules. If it doesn’t go well, or those are broken, then yes. The OP has here eyes open. She is going to protect her daughter.

Well done OP! One more child protected by smart parents!

I’d think about stopping the lessons. And yes people do stuff in plain sight. I was abused by 2 of my uncles who went under the guise of ‘just loveable larger than life men that couldn’t keep their hands to their selves’ so it was normalised that these disgusting pissheads were just always joking about touching arses etc.

Hate to say it but the asian girls comment is weird and the fact that she sits on nobody else's lap. I would try to ask her questions about it gently maybe by asking how uncle teaches her guitar. As a parent I would want to know what has gone on behind closed doors. I would stop lessons personally but your daughter will be confused by this. If you do not stop lessons always sit in on the lesson and say your keen to learn also. There would be no more trips alone and get an app to monitor your daughters social media, search history and it also shares what has been texted. The app was great as it showed us text messages of my 13 year old discussing buying a BB gun from a boy at school.Something he was grounded for and got in to a lot of trouble thankfully to the app. Groomers that do this in front of you rely on you to feel paranoid that you are mistaken especially if it is a family member.

t seems like male music teachers are notorious pedos, too. Sorry if that offends, but just look it up.

I do find shortening to word paedophile to pedos/paedos fairly offensive.

Ground rules! Surely you would be cutting this man out of your life forever? You do not need to sit on someones lap to learn the bloody guitar.

oh no, I am sorry OP. This is definitely not okay. You sound like a great mum and I am sure you will handle this as well as you possibly can. And well done for spotting it so quickly and before things escalated. Your daughter will be okay. Try and get some support for yourself as well. Sending 💐

You are being very naive if you think that. Often the grooming involves normalisation of such things and then pushing the boundaries.
Doing it in plain sight is often part of the process.

That is more weird. I think this does need addressing. Don’t feel awkward about it. Just lay down some ground rules. Keep the conversation open with your daughter. No secrets.

I’m inclined to think that the difference here is that her uncle is cool. He plays the guitar and us into cool bands. She admires that and looks up to him. He is indulging her and, if you think it is too much then say so, but he’d probably be mortified by any other suggestion.

The sitting on his knee to be the best guitarist is definitely creepy and inappropriate.

It's good you spotted this early and can stop it now.

Yeah… believe it! It’s always those CLOSEST to us, OP. Statistically speaking anyways.

It seems like male music teachers are notorious pedos, too. Sorry if that offends, but just look it up.

I had guitar lessons at that age. No way did the teacher make me sit on his knee. I hope he doesn’t teach other kids as it will be massive safeguarding no no. I’m glad you spotted it and can stop it.

The anime thing creeps me out too. I had to explain to my 12 yr old why she couldn’t dress like in kawaii outfits, like anime girls. She cried as it’s not fair pervy men impact what she’s allowed to wear.

@maay, I have been in a safeguarding position and have been a whistleblower. I admire the definitive action you have taken to get to the bottom of this disturbing situation. You must be shocked and sickened to the core.

This manipulative predator has been abusing your DD by:
*Insisting that her sitting on his lap with his arms wrapped around to touch her arms/hands will ensure a great future as a guitarist. As a result of the normalization process, she then felt comfortable placing herself on his lap in her family’s presence.

*Flirting by ensuring she knows he is attracted to her beauty, thereby lifting her to peer status.

*Establishing a texting relationship as a ‘bonding’ tactic, at the moment using memes and music — again treating her as a peer.

*OTT gift giving with the secret promise to overstep your parental decision re expensive trainers.

He has likely been using other grooming ploys such as complements, mirroring, confiding, planning for future outings, perhaps lingering eye contact, etc. I do wonder what boundary blurring was exhibited at the concert.

He has absolutely been grooming you and DH to gain access to DD and to normalize their new relationship dynamic. He will also have been grooming his Wife. He undoubtedly used her as a beard at the concert so he could more easily manipulate DD at the cool venue to deepen her trust and reliance on him.

This is a very dangerous man who preys on young people during music lessons and elsewhere. DD isn’t the first, but I pray she is the last. Please notify the police and other proper authorities.

I agree with @MrsTerryPratchett that seeking professional advice is necessary. You and DH need immediate advice regarding how to best help DD. A forensic interview may be ordered. DD will need the support of IC as she processes this violation, as will you and DH.

Sending strength and solidarity, @maay.

Op, I think if your instinct are trying to tell
you something here.

Well done OP, you’ve handled everything very well. It must be so painful for you. Take your time, you don’t need to rush anything and you clearly have a great relationship with your daughter. I wonder was she subconsciously highlighting the situation by sitting on his lap on front of you? Btw it doesn’t matter what he says, he was grooming her

even if it is all innocent in your brother's mind, it is not appropriate

In what world does a grown man "innocently" coerce a 12 year old to sit on his lap unnecessarily, by pretending it'll make the child "the best guitar player in the world"? It's a clearly calculated way to initiate physical contact. I.e grooming.

OP at age 32 it's unlikely this is his first time doing this. There may be other children out there in dire need of support. Please get professional advice on this.

I'm so sorry OP this is horrific.

This really stood out for me:

"He didn't buy her stuff in between though and he wouldn't have randomly invited her out (the band.) He's also been spending more time here in general. Offering to do nice things for me and DH to help us out. That wouldn't have happened before, unless there was a rare specific reason"

This is exactly what they do. Groom the whole family.

Sick bastard.
Cut contact immediately.

He shouldn’t be around anyone’s DC, him teaching guitar is very worrying. He needs to be reported for the grooming behaviour: the comment about why she should sit on his lap in particular.

It’s good you picked up on this and your DD felt able to be open with you when you raised it, so sorry for this much be shattering for you.

I'm so sorry - but it's brilliant that you've been able to discuss it.

Your instincts were right.

Please contact the police. He may be doing this to other children. You could do a Sarah's Law enquiry?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-out-if-a-person-has-a-record-for-child-sexual-offences

It may be best not to ask her anything more before you've taken their advice on how to proceed.

And you have another difficult conversation to do - to speak with his partner, who's thinking of having children with him, and tell her exactly what you've learned so far.

That will probably split the family. Some will not believe it.

But the children are more important.

I'm usually one of the the first to say nah don't think so but I'm with you here OP.
Your gut is giving you an uneasy feeling, go with it.
Could be innocent but could also not be.
The buying fancy presents, the sitting on knee, the saying that she's beautiful?
At 12 you're still a kid, even if she is being all innocent sitting on his knee he's being inappropriate.
I'd be wary too.

I have just read all your updates, op. So sorry but so glad that you caught it before anything happened. So glad that people know so much more about this and what to look for than they did when I was a child.

Hope you are ok as that's a lot to process - whatever else has gone on with him and your daughter and the fact it is your brother who you trusted. Imagine your husband is also not in a good place right now. I hope you can get professional support too in order to work through this in the way that is best for you, your daughter and your husband.

Yes, I audibly gasped when I read that.

op, I don’t want to alarm you but when I was a very little girl a family friend abused me while I was on his lap. He did it right in front of everyone and no one suspected a thing. You are her mum. Instinctive alarm bells are ringing for a reason.