DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

Any news op?

@maay how are things going?

And tarring all fantastic male music teachers with the same paedophile brush is just as ridiculous <<shakes head>>

It also leads to ignorant people mistaking paediatricians for paedophiles

@maay hope you're all ok?

Has your husband not had a little chat with him in a small room with the door shut?

I only ask because he doesn't seem to be involved very much with this.

Sorry I posted before seeing your update. So sorry it sounds like what you feared OP.

OP PLEASE don’t let the guitar lessons continue. My friend was abused by a tutor- she was 14, he was in his 40s. She said her mum had the door open and would potter in and out of the room the whole time- and he’d still manage to touch her inappropriately, she said he seemed to almost enjoy the challenge of a secret touch when her mum was right there- sometimes even talking to him. I feel sick just thinking about it. She’s nearly 50 herself now and is still completely messed up because of it. She said he appeared to everyone else to be a lovely guy, funny, attractive and good at his job.

At the moment the uncle sounds like he’s in the early grooming phase of showering with presents, time, compliments etc, DD is understandably enjoying all this attention. Hopefully it hasn’t yet progressed to what he more than likely is really after. Please stop this now before it does.

Don’t worry about trying not to offend him, your focus is on protecting your DD. You can explain- we want to make sure DD has very healthy and robust boundaries, and no matter if his intentions are innocent- she needs to learn that sitting on a man’s knee, accepting loads of presents from him, lots of texting with an adult man- even when it’s her uncle - isn’t ok. Maybe say the guitar lesson time doesn’t work for you any more but you’ve managed to find another one somewhere else at a time that does- and then maybe do something nice just you and DD in that time so she gets time with you and doesn’t feel she’s missing out. Please be on guarding for him starting the ‘oh your mum doesn’t approve us being friends haha, she doesn’t understand, we’ll have to meet up somewhere else to continue our music chats….’. I’d have a talk with DD, making sure she knows she’s done absolutely nothing wrong, but explaining why the lap sitting and comments he made aren’t ok. Do you check her phone generally OP?

Just caught up on this thread from yesterday. Sending hugs and strength OP. I'm so sorry it's exactly what it sounded like. What a fabulous mum you are. Huge well done for having the difficult conversations. You clearly have a lovely relationship with DD. DDs school and the police will know exactly how to proceed. Take care x

A lot of people feel worried about reporting potential grooming, as if they are completely responsible if the person ends up being innocent.

Please instead think of it as your duty as part of safeguarding your child, and other children a potential paedophile has contact with. If there are concerns he has been grooming your child then it would be appropriate to report this to the social services mash team (multi agency safeguarding hub). Safeguarding information from healthcare, schools, police and families will go here. If the mash team have enough suspicion, or other reports of inappropriate behaviour come in about him, they will act. You are not the initiator of action but the provider of information to form a better idea for what safeguarding action needs to be taken.

You can report directly to them or the police depending on your preference.

The trainers issue could be your way to get into the conversation with him, first of all about not undermining your decisions to as parents, as he will realise if/when he becomes a parent. This can be your lead into how his behaviour looks and that you will supervise her contact with him for his protection as well as hers. His response will tell you all you need to know.

He's going to be very angry and not want to stop the lessons and of course deny everything.

Good luck OP.

The child is an easy/soft target, that's why they so often get blamed.
Accuse a man of something and he will be angry & push back if he thinks he has a chance of getting away with it. And with these types of crimes part of the temptation seems to be that it is easy to get away with, exploiting/fooling/tricking a child is easy- 'taking candy from a baby' etc.
Where csa is concerned the perpetrator will have been drawn to the child because they sense they are an easy target, it will be easy to flatter & seduce her into going along with him.
Accusing a man is risky, he will do all he can to punish you if you threaten his good name.
Blaming the child is easy, she has no power, is already confused & ashamed because she feels it's her fault.
Victims of csa often go off the rails in some way or have mental health issues because of the abuse, and so her accusers are vindicated, 'we knew she was a wrong-un' etc

The only appropriate ground rule here is that this man doesn’t have access to OP’s DD again. He is blocked on her phone and cannot contact her to set up secret channels of communication or undermine the actions OP is taking. He will of course be offended and say it’s been blown out of all proportion and try and get other family members on side including, if he is able to gain access to her, DD. That cannot be allowed to happen. DD will be upset and confused and wonder if she has done anything wrong. OP needs to be categorical that his behaviour (not DD’s) is very very wrong. This is a man who buys expensive gifts (gifts which OP has said DD cannot have) so he is already undermining her. A ground rule isn’t going to stop him. He is growing in confidence (complimenting her attractiveness and normalising sitting on his knee in public). He is pushing the boundaries of acceptability to see what he can get away with. A ground rule isn’t going to stop him. It will give him a warning as to what he can and can’t get away with and make him more devious. The only way to protect her DD is for OP to prevent any further contact and to report this to prevent him having further access to other young girls. It’s gone waaaaay past asking for ground rules to be adhered to. Given the almost unanimous opinion on here, I am surprised you can’t see that.

Wow I can't believe people are actually having the audacity to blame the CHILD here that is appalling...

So and I quote " don't blame him for a twelve year olds behaviour unless and until you have something that is actually inappropriate ". A 12 year old is a child under the law and however mature or responsible she may be going to sit on an older male relatives lap in a scenario that made her parent feel uncomfortable is telling you as her parent something isn't right. The child is not at fault....crush or no crush. Wait for proof and it will be too late...several examples of what could be inappropriate/ grooming behaviour have been described and the whole situation needs to be tackled now. No one posts on Mumsnet about potential child sexual abuse without having serious concerns. You don't have to make accusations...just act to first protect your daughter and engaging another teacher for her music lessons would be a good first step...she isn't punished by losing her lessons and her uncle's reaction may give you a bit more info about what's going on. Frame it as progress after he has given her a start with her instrument and see how he reacts perhaps but it would introduce some physical and emotional space. Make sure your daughter knows she can come to you about anything without being worried about your reaction or feeling she may be getting someone into trouble. I'm sure you know the basics to safeguard a young person. Yes it will not be easy but better safe than sorry even if your daughter is not at risk. One thing that did come to mind with the comment about your daughters heritage- you don't say but are there any issues about this especially now she is reaching her teenage years. Any bullying or racism at school perhaps or feeling different. Has her uncle picked up on something worrying her and in a clumsy way is trying to boost her self esteem - or is it an attempt to get her with him and part of grooming behaviour? ( my apologies if this has already been discussed ...I've done my best to read the whole thread but...). Whatever try to get some support for yourself as this is such a burden whatever the truths are for parents and the whole family to cope with- keep strong!

Eeeek! Well done, Mum, for picking up the signs and having the kind of relationship where your daughter could share this with you.

Poor girl and poor you. Well done for talking to her about it. I'm very concerned that he teaches the guitar to other children as well as her. I am so sorry love, please contact the police and get some advice. You sound a brilliant mother. x

Oh I'm so sorry! You're clearly a great mum with great insight. Well done. I hope you're all ok.

@ASandwichNamedKevin

Exactly. Paedophiles aren't known for their adherence to ground rules.

If anyone's in any doubt how blatant these men are they should watch the Jimmy Savile doc on Netflix. It will turn you stomach, break your heart and leave you in no doubt about the nature of grooming.

@Genevieva if you have children or work with children you need to open your eyes to red flags not just put down ground rules after someone has been grooming a child and their family. Such naive attitudes are unhelpful, this is really serious stuff. Please look out for yourself and any children you have.

I agree, now that it is clear that abuse is at play, this thread should be taken down.

I'm so sorry, but first it wasn't your fault and well done for trusting your gut. I hope you and DD are OK.💐

OP this thread is pretty identifying and to protect your DD I would think about asking for it to be taken down xx

You absolutely do not need to sit on anybodys knee to learn guitar. My own boyfriend taught me at the time and I wasnt on his knee.

The buying of gifts etc is showing that he buys her things her parents aren't. Its building admiration and trust in him. Its also to use as collateral incase anything happened he can either buy her something else or make her feel bad for the gifts, because why would someone who did that do something wrong?

Id put a stop to the guitar lessons. Just say that you have the funds there for her to take professional lessons now. Make sure they are never in the position of being alone. She is also now at an age where you can talk with her about grooming etc and I think thats quite an important conversation to have sooner rather than later. Dont bring up the uncle, but just a matter of fact conversation along with articles etc she can read.

I had sex at 14 and was coerced into it, your DD is not far from that age.