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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think sportswomen shouldn’t have to forfeit competitions because male fckers are stealing their places?

87 replies

BronteH · 06/05/2024 18:39

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/darts/article-13387345/Im-not-playing-man-womens-event-Female-darts-star-FORFEITS-tournament-refuses-face-transgender-player-calls-ban-won-two-womens-titles.html

What a strong woman.

Why is it ok for men to ‘appropriate’ being women? Why is this not ‘sex appropriation’? Any other other form of ‘appropriation’ is unacceptable, it seems. Why are women supposed to accept this. Slight detour but applicable.

YANBU - Males should not be in female sports

YABU - Live and let live, males in female sport are just trying their best and mean no harm.

Darts star FORFEITS match as she refuses to face transgender player

Hedman is one of the most well known figures in the women's darts scene, and in the past has called on the PDC and WDF to exclude transgender athletes from women's tournaments.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/darts/article-13387345/Im-not-playing-man-womens-event-Female-darts-star-FORFEITS-tournament-refuses-face-transgender-player-calls-ban-won-two-womens-titles.html

OP posts:
takemeawayagain · 06/05/2024 20:09

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:56

Doesn't the whole argument about brains been different and more difficult access mean we'd need seperate corporate (or any other work) environments too?

Yes, maybe then there wouldn't be the pay gap.

VeraForever · 06/05/2024 20:07

No they shouldn't but, like the sufferage movement , they literally suffered for their cause.

Desecratedcoconut · 06/05/2024 20:02

So, quick Google, it looks like the winner of the men's tournament is 24,000 kroner and the women's is 12,000 kroner. Which could go some way to explaining why women might find it harder to succeed in a sport when the sport isn't as well supported.

Similarly, if you could simply use magical words to advance into the category in which you could win double the money, and there were no material and cultural differences that allow men to more easily progress in the sport, then why aren't all the women doing that?

anicesitdownandshutup · 06/05/2024 20:00

YANBU

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:56

Doesn't the whole argument about brains been different and more difficult access mean we'd need seperate corporate (or any other work) environments too?

SuziQuinto · 06/05/2024 19:55

theilltemperedclavecinist · 06/05/2024 19:52

What's with the 'need'? We don't need sport at all. But women want women's sport, so why can't we have it?

Show quote history

Exactly. I don't know why we have to justify it!

Desecratedcoconut · 06/05/2024 19:54

Men have no place in women's sports. Obviously.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 06/05/2024 19:52

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:40

I agree completely for any physical sport where strength or speed is a factor, but do we really need seperate men's and women's darts?

What's with the 'need'? We don't need sport at all. But women want women's sport, so why can't we have it?

EasternStandard · 06/05/2024 19:50

Yanbu first post says what I think

CoatRack · 06/05/2024 19:49

Men and womens' brains are different, in addition to their bodies; so it stands to reason that any competition between the two cannot inherently be 'fair'.

Iudncuewbccgrcb · 06/05/2024 19:49

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:40

I agree completely for any physical sport where strength or speed is a factor, but do we really need seperate men's and women's darts?

Why do we have separate mens and womens changing rooms and toilets?

Is it because women aren't strong enough to hoist themselves up on the urinals or is it because women sometimes don't want to share space with men and have completely different needs to complete the same task?

Women are equally often made quite unwelcome in men's spaces such as pool halls and spaces where dart boards are available.

ThreeB · 06/05/2024 19:46

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:40

I agree completely for any physical sport where strength or speed is a factor, but do we really need seperate men's and women's darts?

Yes because it's not just about the physical advantages (and there are physical advantages at play) but also about the opportunities women have to access the sport. Men are advantaged due to the traditional availability of the sport (pubs and working mens clubs) and have been able to play the sport for far longer, and likely from an earlier age than women. Having a womens category levels the playing field to a large extent.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 06/05/2024 19:44

Men have a physical advantage over women in darts, but that’s not the only relevant factor.

Some competitive activities have separate classes (such as sex classes) to encourage participation by underrepresented groups (and make more money with more competitions no doubt).

If someone from a larger group self-identifies into a smaller one, they can improve their ranking irrespective of relative performance.

For example, there are about fifty times as many male chess grandmasters as female. So a man in the top 250 could place himself in the top five in his class just by declaring himself a woman.

velvetydogtoy · 06/05/2024 19:44

This reply has been deleted

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velvetydogtoy · 06/05/2024 19:42

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:40

I agree completely for any physical sport where strength or speed is a factor, but do we really need seperate men's and women's darts?

In your experience are men bigger than women? Stronger? Longer arms? 🙄

Youcannotbeseriousreally · 06/05/2024 19:41

Men pretending to be women are better women than women , Haven’t you heard?

Bluetoe · 06/05/2024 19:40

I agree completely for any physical sport where strength or speed is a factor, but do we really need seperate men's and women's darts?

SuziQuinto · 06/05/2024 19:35

Iudncuewbccgrcb · 06/05/2024 19:03

There's a thread on this already in relation to pool.

It's not about physical strength it's about access to the sport for women across the board, sponsorship at the higher levels, men's and women's bodies are different in terms of muscle twitch, hand eye co-ordination.

Show me a female darts player who hasn't been hassled down the pub because the men want to play or hasn't been able to put in the same practice hours because of childcare or not feeling able to go into male dominated spaces and take up space in them in the same way men do. Etc etc etc

And maybe women just want to play other women. Maybe it's as simple as that.

Show quote history

This, 💯

ghislaine · 06/05/2024 19:35

There are physiological differences that mean men have an advantage over women at darts - greater arm length and power in the throw are at least two of them.

SuziQuinto · 06/05/2024 19:34

AnotherDelphinium · 06/05/2024 18:49

There should be two categories for all sports; open and women’s.

Open is for e v e r y o n e
Womens is for those born a female, who choose to remain a female and is there’s any question, also have a testosterone range of a biological female.

Thank. You.
Why is this so hard?
Do they want to destroy women's sport forever?

Original poster
BronteH · 06/05/2024 19:31

pointythings · 06/05/2024 18:56

I think there should be three categories: Men, Women, Open. In practical terms that would mean that trans people would all compete in the Open category.

Notable exceptions would be sports which are already mixed, such as equestrianism.

There’s been no interest in having a 3rd category. That’s why others have suggested Female and Open.

For example - Not one person signed up for the ‘open’ category at the Swimming World Cup. https://swimswam.com/world-aquatics-confirms-no-entries-for-new-open-category-at-berlin-world-cup/

World Aquatics Confirms No Entries for New 'Open Category" at Berlin World Cup

World Aquatics has confirmed that nobody has entered the newly-created open category at the Berlin World Cup stop that begins Friday.

https://swimswam.com/world-aquatics-confirms-no-entries-for-new-open-category-at-berlin-world-cup/

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 06/05/2024 19:26

pointythings · 06/05/2024 18:56

I think there should be three categories: Men, Women, Open. In practical terms that would mean that trans people would all compete in the Open category.

Notable exceptions would be sports which are already mixed, such as equestrianism.

Did they not try this for swimming and noone entered the open category. They don't want to have their own category they want to compete against women

Original poster
BronteH · 06/05/2024 19:23

Iudncuewbccgrcb · 06/05/2024 19:03

There's a thread on this already in relation to pool.

It's not about physical strength it's about access to the sport for women across the board, sponsorship at the higher levels, men's and women's bodies are different in terms of muscle twitch, hand eye co-ordination.

Show me a female darts player who hasn't been hassled down the pub because the men want to play or hasn't been able to put in the same practice hours because of childcare or not feeling able to go into male dominated spaces and take up space in them in the same way men do. Etc etc etc

And maybe women just want to play other women. Maybe it's as simple as that.

Show quote history

Exactly.

OP posts:
Original poster
BronteH · 06/05/2024 19:23

CranfordScones · 06/05/2024 18:58

Predictably no coverage on BBC Sport website. They never seem to cover the gender critical aspects of these stories.

Yup. Only certain news outlets cover these stories. Usually traditionally ‘right wing’ ones. Eg. The Mail , telegraph, times.

Traditionally ‘left wing’ ones, have no interest, because they are usually themselves ‘captured’ by incoherent ‘trans ideology’. Eg. BBC, Guardian etc

Of course with this subject ‘the left’ are behaving very much like intolerant right wing loons. News black outs, etc.

OP posts: