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Is your household contributing net tax ?

414 replies

Pingufireengine · 05/05/2024 06:18

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

OP posts:
qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 10:16

CaliGurl · 05/05/2024 10:12

As much as I want a generous pension the inverted population pyramid will make it impossible to have on such generous terms as the current population.
Fair enough to say that a 'pension' payable to everyone on principle exists. But how much, at what age... Well that's another question.

Which brings us back to taxing the robots!

If you look at this logically, we either support pensioners or leave them to die on the street. I don't think the second option is going to be an electoral success.

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 10:15

StormingNorman · 05/05/2024 10:12

Nothing so worthwhile as medicine! It’s really not that much for the fields we are in.

Why are you so rich?

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 05/05/2024 10:14

Panicmode1 · 05/05/2024 07:01

Corporations need to pay more...it's not right that eg bricks and mortar retailers pay significantly more tax than say Amazon, Google and Meta who cream billions out of the economies of the countries they operate in but pay risible amounts of tax.

We need to tax individuals less and taper benefits, so there is more incentive to work, rather than face punitive sanctions if you go £1 over the limits.

We need more people working - and feeling able and well enough to work, but we need huge investment in mental health support to tackle the epidemic of anxiety and depression....which is caused by the hopelessness of the housing situation, low wages, poor public services, decline in the state of everything.....but there's no money...so round we go again!

We are definitely net contributors...I was 😳 when I saw how much PAYE tax DH paid last year...so I feel significantly less guilty about having 4 children...😉

We are definitely net contributors and completely agree with all of this.

I wouldn’t be happy at all to pay more tax as an individual unless the loopholes allowing big businesses to avoid paying taxes while raking in massive profits were closed.

StormingNorman · 05/05/2024 10:12

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 09:41

Why are you so rich? Are you neurosurgeons?

Nothing so worthwhile as medicine! It’s really not that much for the fields we are in.

CaliGurl · 05/05/2024 10:12

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 10:05

@CaliGurl If you want a pension in future - and if you are rational you would, life would be really very shit without them - the best way to protect it for yourself is to protect it for everyone.

Once you start chipping away at it, you will open the floodgates and it will be swept away for all.

As much as I want a generous pension the inverted population pyramid will make it impossible to have on such generous terms as the current population.
Fair enough to say that a 'pension' payable to everyone on principle exists. But how much, at what age... Well that's another question.

TheDefiant · 05/05/2024 10:10

@Pingufireengine do you have any figures for what constitutes household net tax?

I.e. household gross income of £85,000 for a family with 2 x adults plus 2 x under 18s?

Or is it £85,000 for a family with only 2 adults?

There are so many variables. I note a PP mentions a gross salary of over £40k but if there is one person in a family earning that and they have 4 children their use of the state will be different from a one person family on the same salary with 1 child or 2 or 10!

I think my family is a net contributor but am not sure.

I come from a FSM family.

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 10:08

Ocadoshoppingjustarrived · 05/05/2024 10:05

How old are you? What a stupid comment

She already said she's 54 dummy

Delawear · 05/05/2024 10:08

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 09:47

Hmm

You also get the benefit of living in an educated, generaly lawful society.

This means that us plebs can a) adminstrate and service your life to an adequate standard without you having to pay your own staff and b) aren't outside your door with pitchforks.

I agree with you @qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty

And the sense of entitlement is astonishing! Owning four gas guzzling vehicles and then complaining about paying tax on them.

LiquoriceAllsort2 · 05/05/2024 10:07

Noicant · 05/05/2024 09:57

Yeah see even with 7.5k extra a year that still wouldn’t be enough for a substantial number of people, if we mothballed pensions for example or single people or people who would require disability payments etc. You would still need to top up some people.

I imagine a chunk of it would end up being clawed back through tax from higher payers and there would be people who would be left destitute without additional entitlements.

Edited

This is the problem, with people needing to pay for housing etc then the level would need to be approx 18000 pa now with 54 million adults that's a lot of money.

What about children? Do they get 50% or what figure.

Would it then be a massive incentive for migration if they level of free money was high.

I have long ago liked the idea of UBI and now as early retired it would be great but I know it could never work

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 10:07

WalkingThroughTreacle · 05/05/2024 10:04

Or maybe everyone should have to grow their own food, make their own clothes, sweep their own streets etc etc etc. Without all the low-paid workers (whether at home or abroad) growing crops, rearing livestock, processing the output, moving it around the supply chain and putting it on the shelves in Waitrose, the better off would be too busy just subsisting to have time for their elite careers. Their success, whether they care to admit it or not, is entirely dependent on the sweat and toil of all the low earning riffraff so many of them clearly view with contempt.

Quite frankly I'm starting to think collective farms might just be preferable. It would be an excellent attitude adjustment

Ocadoshoppingjustarrived · 05/05/2024 10:05

Vettrianofan · 05/05/2024 07:45

So funny that wealthy folk are quick to shut down any conversations around UBI🤣

They are frightened it might actually have a chance of helping the economy and making poorer people less poor. But we can't have that. No. Keep the poor in their place.

How old are you? What a stupid comment

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 10:05

@CaliGurl If you want a pension in future - and if you are rational you would, life would be really very shit without them - the best way to protect it for yourself is to protect it for everyone.

Once you start chipping away at it, you will open the floodgates and it will be swept away for all.

WalkingThroughTreacle · 05/05/2024 10:04

kitsuneghost · 05/05/2024 09:52

Perhaps tax you pay should be linked to how much benefits you receive for pension, children, income support if ever required etc..

Or maybe everyone should have to grow their own food, make their own clothes, sweep their own streets etc etc etc. Without all the low-paid workers (whether at home or abroad) growing crops, rearing livestock, processing the output, moving it around the supply chain and putting it on the shelves in Waitrose, the better off would be too busy just subsisting to have time for their elite careers. Their success, whether they care to admit it or not, is entirely dependent on the sweat and toil of all the low earning riffraff so many of them clearly view with contempt.

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 10:01

CaliGurl · 05/05/2024 09:59

As a 30 something I resent paying NI because very sure that, by the time I retire, it'll either have been scrapped, means-tested or the claiming age raised so high that I'll be infirm/dead by the time I get anything.

They could at least NOT have the triple lock - if anything!

Please try to explain the political process whereby pensioners will tolerate this happening to them?

Pensioners today have significant electoral power. Pensioners in the future will have significant political power.

You are being paranoid.

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 10:00

CaliGurl · 05/05/2024 09:59

As a 30 something I resent paying NI because very sure that, by the time I retire, it'll either have been scrapped, means-tested or the claiming age raised so high that I'll be infirm/dead by the time I get anything.

They could at least NOT have the triple lock - if anything!

Do you have any friends or family? Perhaps they use some services?

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 10:00

AngelinaFibres · 05/05/2024 09:57

My exhusband died recently ( suicide). Our children are adults,are his next of kin and are sorting out his debts etc. They have discovered that he was receiving £538.00 a month in UC. He was claiming for a family he didn't live with and hadn't seen for 2 years. His second exwife knew nothing about this UC claim for him ,her and their teenage daughter. He hadn't paid any maintenance to her so she hadn't gained anything from this claim. I dare say he isn't the only one doing this

Fraud is a different matter, nothing to do with legal benefits claims.

It is dishonest to muddle up benefit fraud with the general discussion.

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 09:59

Winter2020 · 05/05/2024 09:57

I work night shifts, have kids (including one with special needs) and earn around 22k. Husband earns around the same.

I work to live not live to work. If you started giving me 10k universal basic income the first thing I'm going to do is put in a request to reduce my hours.
🎉🎉

As the UK has a productivity problem - I think it would be counterproductive.

The inflation that giving everyone 10k a year (for example) would cause would probably mean I have to start looking to increase my hours again as costs rocket - but it would be nice while it lasts.

..not to mention exacerbating/causing staffing crises in care, hospitality, transport, health .....

The UK does not have a productivity problem due to benefits. Germany pays far more and has far higher productivity. Our low wage economy is part of why we have a productivity crisis.

CaliGurl · 05/05/2024 09:59

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 08:51

I do not like the term 'politics of envy' as it is designed to shut down debate.

I accept that young people are facing great difficulties.

But removing the state pension is not the answer. You will remove the state pension in future from young people too and reduce political support for NI overall.

As a 30 something I resent paying NI because very sure that, by the time I retire, it'll either have been scrapped, means-tested or the claiming age raised so high that I'll be infirm/dead by the time I get anything.

They could at least NOT have the triple lock - if anything!

AngelinaFibres · 05/05/2024 09:58

AngelinaFibres · 05/05/2024 09:57

My exhusband died recently ( suicide). Our children are adults,are his next of kin and are sorting out his debts etc. They have discovered that he was receiving £538.00 a month in UC. He was claiming for a family he didn't live with and hadn't seen for 2 years. His second exwife knew nothing about this UC claim for him ,her and their teenage daughter. He hadn't paid any maintenance to her so she hadn't gained anything from this claim. I dare say he isn't the only one doing this

That over £12,900 he was not entitled to.

AngelinaFibres · 05/05/2024 09:57

Pingufireengine · 05/05/2024 07:13

I'm not saying that.

But we need to stop seeing anyone and everyone as parasites.Disabled, pensioners, single parents, minimum wage workers, poor people.

We all take and contribute, we all give and share, it's not us Vs them

My exhusband died recently ( suicide). Our children are adults,are his next of kin and are sorting out his debts etc. They have discovered that he was receiving £538.00 a month in UC. He was claiming for a family he didn't live with and hadn't seen for 2 years. His second exwife knew nothing about this UC claim for him ,her and their teenage daughter. He hadn't paid any maintenance to her so she hadn't gained anything from this claim. I dare say he isn't the only one doing this

Noicant · 05/05/2024 09:57

Yeah see even with 7.5k extra a year that still wouldn’t be enough for a substantial number of people, if we mothballed pensions for example or single people or people who would require disability payments etc. You would still need to top up some people.

I imagine a chunk of it would end up being clawed back through tax from higher payers and there would be people who would be left destitute without additional entitlements.

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 09:57

kitsuneghost · 05/05/2024 09:52

Perhaps tax you pay should be linked to how much benefits you receive for pension, children, income support if ever required etc..

How the hell would that work?! Grin

You don't seem to understand the concept of the welfare state full stop.

Winter2020 · 05/05/2024 09:57

Vettrianofan · 05/05/2024 07:34

It's the supermarket worker who deserves to be paid more. We would all starve if the shelves weren't constantly restocked. A massive shake up of the economy is needed.

UBI needs to be brought in. I am a huge fan of UBI and know it would really help.

I work night shifts, have kids (including one with special needs) and earn around 22k. Husband earns around the same.

I work to live not live to work. If you started giving me 10k universal basic income the first thing I'm going to do is put in a request to reduce my hours.
🎉🎉

As the UK has a productivity problem - I think it would be counterproductive.

The inflation that giving everyone 10k a year (for example) would cause would probably mean I have to start looking to increase my hours again as costs rocket - but it would be nice while it lasts.

..not to mention exacerbating/causing staffing crises in care, hospitality, transport, health .....

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 09:56

Vettrianofan · 05/05/2024 09:51

They can do litter picking instead then🤪

I believe Hitler also had public work schemes.

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 09:56

Noicant · 05/05/2024 09:50

Jeez 88 billion on universal credit, I just checked, so 280 billion on pensions and welfare a year. Thats just 7500 per working age person a year unless my maths is wrong.

Edited

Yes. We have a big society, with a lot of people and a lot of structural inequality to address.

We either pay benefits, or find ways to restructure/improve the economy generally, or we let people die in squalor.

There is no magic solution where we remove benefits and people magically get richer. A civilised society costs money.