Is your household contributing net tax ?

To let people who bash out at the poor, disabled and carers that we are not happy about the constant rhetoric.

It’s both to be fair.

I don’t get child benefit.
We’ll pay for any uni education presumably.
There are free dinners for all in our school for some years. So you have people earning £200k getting free dinners. I don’t agree with it, quality and quantity has gone down.

“Why do people own more than one property and rent it out to someone on housing benefit and rake it in? Who's the actual scrounger?”
^ This is why housing is in a mess. Mortgage £400 a month rent £1200. Ridiculous.

They aren't the problem. It's the tax dodgers, corporations or the uber rich at the top of the tree.

They're so very few and far between and it's likely bravado to cover up the fact that they can't work.

It depends, doesn’t it? I imagine most healthy, child free adults are net contributors at well below that salary, particularly if they’re council tax payers and consumers of services and products liable for VAT. My time as a net contributor came to an abrupt end when I claimed my state pension.

Why should morality impact upon Hayley's 7 children? Why does their paternity matter?

LeopardsRockingham
The system we have now is unsustainable, we're not far off more people taking out then the fewer people can put in. We can't keep everyone happy, something has to give before the whole system crashes down into anarchy because that will happen when the gap between rich and poor gets too big to fix. Then it really will be survival of the fittest.

OP, what's the point of your post?

I didn't purposely miss out the "some adjustments for the disabled"

But in the eutopian era I can only assume we will be shat on from a greater height than we are now.

I didn't dick about at school I got 11 gcse grades a and b
3 as at a level
2.1 at a top 10 uni.....there was drinking involved there that was my fault

Working for a big 4 by 21.

I also had an 'undiagnosed disease'.

I spent a year in hospital at 14, 6 months at 16 and sat my a levels in hospital.

I was in and out all through uni. Luckily when studying for professional exams the flares happened then so I was 'off work' so studied in hospital.

I bought a house at 23. Worked my ass off. Was mid management by early 30s on the top end of where I should be.

Mids 30s I had a baby. He was made disabled through hospital mismanagement and my condition also became unmanageable.

Now because I'd had a lifetime of ?????? Illness how do you think I got on getting insurance? Oh yes thats right uninsurable

So I did all the right things. I studied, I didn't fuck about and I'm still ill and uninsurable.

I have some pension from when I did work and I pay some into a private pension now.....

Could be from benefits could be from my husbands job....not sure but we have no real life to enjoy so we have £50 per month to do it.

CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE BACK......
I did everything "right" and I still live like this!

I don't have children but see how we should have a structure that supports parents bringing the next generation into the world and all of the costs associated with that !

Any civilised society would surely.

LeopardsRockingham · Today 17:28
So in this brave new world

What happens to children who are born with disabilities that are 1/uninsurable and 2/the cost of their health care will always be above the £114 of UBI they are going to get at 16.
When they turn up at hospital the day of their 16th birthday are they too expensive to run?

"Obviously some adjustments for the disabled."
Did you purposely ignore that bit just to leap to the usual dystopian scenario?
If every year the majority of societies 16 year olds knew what they were going to be responsible for in their lives and what wouldn't be available to them they would have to plan accordingly. They would pay their health insurance, they would start paying into a private pension, most would dick about less at school.
Lots of people nowadays know all their rights but have forgotten they also have responsibilities.

That has changed now.
UC is ridiculously low for able-bodied people of working age to get. I believe mothers have to be back at work after 1 year. Similar to a lot of working mums I know, lawyer,Dr, receptionist etc etc took a few months extra.

There is extra money IF you are disabled OR have disabled child(ren) and as has been pointed out over and over. Regardless of what Nigel next door says noone in their right mind would prefer to live a life of disability or see their child in 24hr distress for the fun of rolling over and going back to sleep in the morning.

These people don't have a benefit cap so will get more rent paid and might get such things as disabled child element and DLA. Plus PIP and ESA for themselves.

I LOVED working, I loved having money to spare and the opportunities to earn more.
I would give anything for my DS to be 'normal' and not in pain and not have had 30 Plus operations in his life. I wish he could be as carefree as other children. But he isn't.

If you ask me how we are. I'll say fine, grand - doing well.....because who the fuck wants to listen when it NEVER stops. I've been doing the same 3hr nightly routine of meds and therapy with DS since birth and it's never going to get any better.

My disease is degenerative- I could well be dead in 5 to 10 years. Its also rare so Dr's don't know much about it, which means neither do I. So you say when you meet people " ha ha better than working" when this is the 1st time you've been out in 2 months
...because there is nothing else to say.

I apologise I have been upset on here this weekend. Usually I'll scroll by. But the amount of cruel comments towards common man is just sticking out.

It's not free money, it comes at a horrible price

@LeopardsRockingham
No one has suggested that

There just needs to be a middle ground where personal responsibility and support are better balanced than they currently are. It's ludicrous to have a society which almost incentivises people to game the system: Work part time and get UC top up rather than work full time for marginally more/ Deliberately remain under employed because there's little incentive to maximise your earning

So in this brave new world

What happens to children who are born with disabilities that are 1/uninsurable and 2/the cost of their health care will always be above the £114 of UBI they are going to get at 16.
When they turn up at hospital the day of their 16th birthday are they too expensive to run?

Or do we just put them down the day they were born to save money?

If I can't afford my hospital treatment will I have to pay for them to euthanize me?

It’s not that the people working for NMW need to increase their contributions, it’s that many of the 1 in 6 adults who aren’t working need to get back to work and stop making excuses.

This is spot on. The uncomfortable truth that lots of people want to avoid. Especially because a lot of the higher rate tax payers at the top of the pyramid are quite mobile.

But they’re not greedy spongers are they? We need people in low paid work. Do you want your parcels delivered? Do you want to be served in shops? Would want somebody to wipe your bum if you were elderly and incapable?

There’s a world of moral and financial difference between somebody working 38 hours on the NMW and Hayley who has decided that with 7 children by 4 different men she ‘would love to work, but can’t’.

I have no issue with that either. Its just not true that a disabled single parent would be shamed but a married /civil partnered or single able bodied person would staying at home would not be.

This will never happen now in this country, though I expect the pendulum to swing a lot further your way than it is now as the reality of lack of government funds start to bite.

LiquoriceAllsort2
What happens if they don't are you willing to say sorry you haven't sorted your healthcare so we will not help you so you can die?
To a degree why not? Do you think the government should cover everything, do you think people should take no personal responsivity for anything? UBI would eventually lead to a fairer society. In the current system it makes no sense for someone to be able to get more housing benefit for a squat in London then a family in Newcastle, it just skews the market. It makes no sense to have UC top ups for working people as it just allows businesses to not pay a decent wage. It makes no sense that council tax is based on 1991 prices as that has led to massive inequality in society.
Finally it makes no sense to have tens of thousands of staff just processing all the different claims when UBI would cut the amount needed to a couple of thousand.

Definitely net contributors now, mid fifties both working full time, don't claim anything.
We have had periods where we were likely not net contributors - children in education ( although 2 born abroad). Never claimed anything other than very minimal childcare costs, both have always worked.

Most adults aren’t net contributors. A PP mentioned that 40k was the starting point for a net contribution and only 25% of people earn that much.

As a child you are a net-recipient, as an adult most will be net-contributors, and as a pensioner you will again be a net-recipient. Your average over your whole life is a more useful measure. Education should not be attributed to the parents, it's a cost that the child "owes" and will repay as an adult.