Is your household contributing net tax ?

Not really. 😂

It’s not soulless. Perhaps ask nurses if they’ll take another round of applause instead of a pay rise?

it also isn’t denigrating other contributions to society to say that the government needs money to pay its bills. Have you tried paying the mortgage with good deeds?

Haven’t read the full thread but you’re not taking into account all the other taxes. I pay VAT on just about everything, council tax, road tax, licence fee (tax to me), insurance tax, tax on capital gains ~ plus stamp duty if I move, inheritance tax if someone dies. Most people are paying massive taxes just to live their lives.

Also can we stop this ‘worst pension in Europe’ thing. Most pensions in Europe are very similar to ours and often claimed later. I know because my DP is in receipt of one! It’s about £200 pa difference to ours and had to wait until 67 whilst I got mine at 66.

Who pays what is surely a circular argument. We need a system that is fair and applied consistently. And in return we get a good service. Taxes in some European countries are far higher yet accepted because public services are so much better.

Well I’d imagine that the infrastructure costs of ‘running’ the country are a not insignificant amount, which all have to come from that There’s defence, transport, environment, culture, and debt interest as a minium. Then there’s the actual cost of government, civil service and local councils. Healthy people still need access to a GP, and the GP gets paid for having them on their books regardless of use. And given it’s government we are talking about sadly I can see that costing well over £10k!!

Corporations must pay a lot more tax. How many corporations are net contributors? They benefit from the infrastructure we all contribute to, an educated workforce etc, and yet pay less per £1 of turnover in tax than the average small business. Loopholes must be closed and if they aren’t we should all be prepared to push this point with whatever government gets elected.

I think I'm a net contributor. My 3 adult DC are adults now but I've always worked after first 6 months. My Mum looked after my DC whilst I worked. When my kids were young there was no government help towards childcare. I've never claimed any benefit except child benefit when DC under 18, at that point it was universal benefit. I've paid 40 percent tax most my life and so has DH. We've had private health insurance so not to drain on NHS. We both pay the dentist privately too so not taking a NHS spot. I've got btl properties and pay 40 percent tax on profit from those not in limited company name. I'm living off my private Teachers' pension as not eligible for state pension yet. DH also living off his private pension and investments as also not old enough for state pension yet. All my 3 DC work and 2 pay 40 percent tax. DD has repaid student loan in full and both DS's didn't want to go to uni. None of my dc claim benefits either except 1 DS only pays 75 percent council tax as he gets a 25 percent discount for sole occupancy. Also my DD went to an independent school so not a drain on state either. When my DC were small and I could have used some state support such as a UC top up none was available.

Supply and demand, and not choosing to work for an employer who is in a monopoly position so can effectively dictate what the job will pay.

@Welovecrumpets didn't claim to be personally paying someone else's council tax!

The point being made is that there is a difference someone who doesn't earn and is wholly reliant on benefits having their council tax paid for them through public funds; and a public sector worker who earns money in return for the job they are doing and who then pays their council tax out of those (taxed!) earnings.

A previous poster didn't seem to understand the difference

Apart from nobody has suggested that. Just that we all start doing our fair share a bit more.

Isn't that the end of the road though when one group hoards and the other group goes without?

Wow, the very definition of hyperbole.

You need to acknowledge that you personally are not paying specifically her council tax. Your taxes are going on a vast amount of things that you and wider society use all the time. A very very tiny proportion of what you pay is going on her council tax. Of course people could withdraw all help from all people who need it and start living in compounds with armed guards instead.

I get PIP which gives me some independence from my partner and would be my only income if we broke up, but I still pay voluntary NI contributions and he pays a high rate of tax, so as a household we are probably net contributors due to not having children.

You're so right!

'So it's public money paying it, not her'

'You could say the same of anyone that has a job in the public sector... it is the public money paying it.
*
And yes, I pay full rate council tax (minus 25% for living alone)*'

Absolutely not the same at all. Someone working in the public sector earns money which becomes theirs** in return for the work they are contributing within the public sector.

This whole right wing money in money out equation is ridiculous as it is not grounded in human society.

I don't give it any credence, anyone who buys into it is missing the point of human society.

So many low paid people benefit society in so many amazing and complicated ways.

It is both stupid and soulless to measure human contribution in cash.

I’ve clearly stated it is based on average take out over an average lifetime.

Of course there will be a significant number of differences not only from person to person but also during a single person’s lifetime.

If you have no children the amount will be lower. If you have severe medical issues later in life the amount will be higher. The list is endless.

As I mentioned earlier some of the biggest costs are items that are beneficial to all such as defence, public order and safety and transport.

The bottom line is if you don’t average around 50k lifetime salary per person or 100k for a 2 parent family it is likely that you are costing the country more than you contribute over your lifetime.

The current political narrative is to demonise higher earners as being selfish when in fact they are pretty much the only group of people who are not selfish from a tax perspective.

This is why things such as VAT on schools fees, lifetime pension contributions limits and the suggestion pension contributions may revert to basic rate tax relief are all really bad ideas. If the top 1% get fed and decide they don’t want to prop up the economy anymore then the country goes bust.

It's hard to quantify what you take out because we all benefit as a society from educating our young, ensuring we have an adequate police force, health care for everyone and so on.

If you don’t pay the average amount of tax then by definition you are not a net contributor

There’s no logic to that. Net contribution isn’t just dependent on what you put in, the other side of the equation is what you take out. In many cases that’s virtually nothing.

If you don’t pay the average amount of tax then by definition you are not a net contributor assuming you create average cost to the state over your lifetime as tax paid and spent is a zero sum for government.

With the top 1% paying such huge amounts it means that a lot of people won’t be paying above the average and in turn will not be net contributors.

In theory if top rate taxes get too high you could end up in a scenario where the top 1% are the only people who pay more than an average share and thus are net contributors.

As it stands it is around 20% of people who are net contributors. The other 80% are all subsidised to some degree or another by the 20%.

Only if they earn reasonable salaries themselves otherwise it’s a double whammy.

We’re not talking about average shares. We’re talking about being a net contributor.

But children being a tax expense is a temporary situation. They are future tax contributors. Many after the age of 22 and up to the age of 67.
You could say all of it is paid back.

Well no because they’re working.

I understand you want to defend your position but it just isn’t the same and you need to acknowledge that

The top 1% pay around 1/3rd of all income tax so not hard to see how most of the remaining 99% are not paying an average share.