Is your household contributing net tax ?

@Neveralonewithaclone I understood what you were getting at.

Yes, it's the whining from rich people that is so repellent.

That's often not true and it doesn't change the legal position at all.

Is that because all poor people are good and altruistic?

You cannot even begin to quantify someone's contribution to the economy, or society, based on their tax contribution. It's an ignorant and dangerous discussion to encourage and only fuels misguided anger and resentment. Invariably, it's lower-earning workers that provide the most vital services, and without them the high earners simply couldn't function. The single biggest societal issue, not just in the UK but globally, is the unfair distribution of wealth and GDP. the tax and benefits system, that too many of the better off like to whine about, does not go nearly far enough to give us a fair and equitable society.

Why high earners do not longer bothered with the U.K.? Those handouts money got a come from somewhere. Now high earners are called parasites only in this country. Nothing surprises me anymore. I beg those calling for it are unemployable.

👋

You can’t compare our pension to other countries.

i think we should move to something like Sweden, where tax kicks in much lower, but fewer things are means tested.

Disabled children become disabled adults.

It's not comparable in the slightest.

Parents have a legal duty. Carers of adults don't. The state however does.

Adult carers are absolutely doing the government a favour and saving everyone many millions.

Fundamentally wrong isn't it.

With the exception of child carers, those carers who say they are doing the government a favour by looking after family members are no different to dads who say they are doing their partner a favour by babysitting.

Not really, if you’re caring for a disabled or elderly relative you save the state a huge sum in not paying for care services. If those caring responsibilities mean you can’t work - because someone’s needs mean they aren’t safe being left alone - you’re saving the state a huge amount in residential care fees. You also completely compromise your ability to work and pay your own bills.

It’s fine to say family have the first duty to care, but you then need to consider the impact of the cost of that caring role on those who are caring. I had to work part time to care for my disabled children, luckily I had reached a point in my career where I could work flexibly and had a reasonable salary but my career stalled for 7 years, it’s only now moving forward again. Swap disabled child for disabled partner or adult child and the impact on my earning capacity would be the same - while saving thousands a week for the state to provide care.

I think removing state pensions from high tax payers risks exposing it for the Ponzi scheme it is. My NI contributions are paying current pensions not going into a pot for my future. It’s a social contract, the working generation fund the pensions of the generation before. Undermine that at your peril.

but isn’t the issue the fact that the ponzi triangle is turning upside down?

I work in education in London & the impact on school rolls due to falling birth rates/families pushed out of London is significant.

I am a net contributor. Additional rate tax payer, DC in private school, private health and dentist etc. We are even private landlords (boo hiss!!!).
One of the major drags on the economy in my view is the lack of social housing. People in insecure expensive housing are not able to make longer term plans like taking a training role which might pay less but offer longer term progression or build up rainy day savings.
I think removing state pensions from high tax payers risks exposing it for the Ponzi scheme it is. My NI contributions are paying current pensions not going into a pot for my future. It’s a social contract, the working generation fund the pensions of the generation before. Undermine that at your peril.

@vivainsomnia so their wages need to stretch to rent/saving for house deposit, paying off any education costs & saving for a decent pension. Unrealistic against a backdrop of low wages.

Probably not but UBI wouldn't work for the whole country.

The studies that have been done said that the behaviour of the participants didn't change as far as going to work so the pilot was deemed a success.

I feel this is wrong as the participants knew it was limited time study so they wouldn't alter their behaviour too much. As we are now seeing with the middle aged workers it takes time to alter the behaviour but once altered I do not feel they will be going back.

*So funny that wealthy folk are quick to shut down any conversations around UBI🤣

They are frightened it might actually have a chance of helping the economy and making poorer people less poor. But we can't have that. No. Keep the poor in their place.*

The thing with UBI is that everything will increase in price, because everyone starts with X amount, so can afford higher rent, utilities etc. And UBI would take the place of UC and other benefits, so people who are struggling on UC would still be struggling. The assumption that UBI could be introduced and everything else stay the same is unreasonable.

Most people aren't calling Carers scroungers. The responsibility should fall on family first, state second. With the exception of child carers, those carers who say they are doing the government a favour by looking after family members are no different to dads who say they are doing their partner a favour by babysitting.

Not vilifying parents. Vilifying people who look down on and other the less haves and reminding them that they also are likely to be a cost to the state.

I don’t think younger people are going to have better private pensions so therefore it’s ok to move out state pensions
Of course they will if they start contributing reasonably at an early age. Certainly to receive to the level of the state pension.

There’s also the shrinking tax paying base, in the 60s you had 1 pensioner to 5 workers, it’s about 1 to 3 now & forecasts predict 1 to 2 isn’t too far. It’s one reason why immigration will never stop, we need it.

Is the current situation working for those who are poor?

Younger people now are more likely to have an occupational pension.

because of auto enrolment? Private pensions are crap for most these days. I’m lucky to have a government one but it used to be amazing, unfortunately the scheme changed whilst I was at uni.

I don’t think younger people are going to have better private pensions so therefore it’s ok to move out state pensions.

Just realised I missed the word NET!
Having children benefits society longer term, future tax payers, surgeons, builders, teachers etc so I don't think having DC is a drain on society quite the opposite