That The La Leche League have dangerously lost the plot?

Exactly. Not a care at all shown for the babies, so grim.

@BalletCat Cannot get my head around you being angry with the people drawing attention to the child abuse because it makes the nice trans women look bad.

To everyone taking the piss out of "act like a woman" as someone who is not a trans woman I clearly can't explain it effectively but that is the way it has been explained to me by all the trans women I have ever met. When they act like and are accepted as a female, they feel 'right'. When they act like a man to fit in they feel 'wrong'. It's not my experience so I can't explain it any better than that.

Obviously no one is saying that women who have been abused should be exposed to men in female spaces. Anyone saying that is being deliberately obtuse.

People saying all trans women are men in dresses with perverted fetishes are just uninformed and nasty.

The absolute hatred of trans people on MN is disgusting. I stand by the fact that it is such a non issue (less than 1% of the population is trans and many people have never even encountered a trans person, and all the trans people I have ever met have been repeated victims of violence, not perpetrators of violence) that I can't understand why there needs to be a hysterical pearl clutching trans bashing thread three times a week.

I also stand by the fact that random men aren't using LLL meetings to wonder in off the street and ogle at tits. People are deliberately blowing it out of proportion to make it as ridiculous as possible, as usual with trans issues on MN. I have literally never seen a trans woman in a changing room. The trans women I do know use the disabled or family because the don't feel safe in the men's and dont want to make women uncomfortable. They don't feel like they belong anywhere and just want to be accepted, not ogle women. Rapists using the guise of being trans to get into women's spaces IS NOT a trans issue, it is a rapist issue. By continually hating on trans people you're all missing the point and laying into people who are already vulnerable and persecuted while actual rapists are not being called out for what they are.

You're all being hateful individuals and the prejudice shown on this and every other trans thread is disgusting and clearly no one has any interest in researching the issue or seeing any other point of view. So fuck this, I'm out. It's really sad because usually I don't waste my time on these threads because its inevitable it will end like this but just ignoring prejudice makes us as bad as the people doling it out, wish I hadn't bothered.

This.

Do I? Because it's clear to me that the post I quoted was saying that there isn't enough milk to sustain a child anyway so why bother. With no other mention of why it would be wrong in their eyes, just no point in bothering because there's not enough milk for the effort to be worth it.

I honestly cannot believe that anyone is defending this. What the hell is wrong with people? This is involving newborn babies in men's fetishes. It's is absolutely disgusting.

I've seen it. It's been largely decried as someone taking the piss to get attention. They haven't been heard from since or made any effort to make it happen.

I don't know any genuine trans people who call having sex with a trans woman "gay sex" do you? All this person is doing is acting stupid to get attention and making life harder for trans people who just want to get on with their lives. Sadly so many take the bait and think all trans people are perverts.

Obviously I don't think child abuse is acceptable. Go wind someone else up.

Is this satire?

I think I've just discovered that, despite pushing a human out of my birth canal, I'm not actually a woman.

The only thing that makes me a woman is my biology. I have a unisex name, I live in jeans, flat shoes and boots and t-shirts, very rarely wear makeup, and I don't actually know what 'behave as a woman' means. I work in a male dominated industry, and enjoy primarily male dominated hobbies.

...

Am I a man? Can I get a pay rise?

There is absolutely no innocent reason for a transwoman to attend a breastfeeding class. They're biologically male. They can't get pregnant. They can't breastfeed without an enormous amount of medication, at which point they'll probably need specialist help that a group aimed at a biologically female function can't give.

It's fucking weird to even entertain the notion, and fucking awful for the new mothers expected to share one of the most biologically female spaces possible with them

It is the slippery slope of permitting men into women’s spaces. it makes me absolutely furious.

I am an average woman - I’m not troubled by ptsd from abuse, I’m not a religious person. But I object in the absolute strongest terms to being obliged to reveal my breasts and discuss my breastfeeding difficulties in a space shared with a random man. If that makes me a transphobe, I am happy to be labelled as such. I own the label with pride, as a feminist and a defender of my sex.

Breastfeeding should remain a uniquely female experience, it is that simple. Males feeding babies chemically induced secretions is a perversion.

A women-only spin-off/splinter charity would be a good idea, just cut out the lunatics and start afresh.

I did some research on this one because I think the facts are important. There was a study with low participant rates that have successfully induced lactation with a regimen of medication. In the studies there was no reported risk to the baby ingesting this milk but the volume was insufficient. The medication was funded by the participant- but I can’t remember what the cost was or if there were any side effects.

I am not sure of the motivation of the participant as I didn’t look at the politics, but I don’t think this treatment would be accessible to other trans women and should not be an expectation of transitioning.

I personally believe that the political interventions done on behalf of trans people (especially those with debilitating and persistent dysphoria) has actually harmed them in the long run.

@BalletCat

Dress as a woman

Are women less of a woman if they wear jeans and a t shirt and hoodie all the time and never wear dresses?

wear makeup

Are women less of a woman if they never wear make up?

behave as woman

Can you give a few specific examples of what this means?

do all the things biological women do

As above, can you give a few specific examples of what this means?

Lesbians still have female names and behave like women

Same question as above.

@BalletCat

Transgender people face so much abuse and violence in their lives and are regularly the victim of hate crimes, anyone enduring that is not doing so for a laugh or for a sneak peak at a tit.

Do you think that natal women who have faced abuse and violence in their lives are transphobic if they are unwilling to share intimate spaces (rape crisis meetings for example) with natal men who identify as women?

Bring back the words pervert and cross dressing. Then we can see this for what it really is.

These are heterosexual men who are using babies as props for their own gratification.

Disgraceful.

Well exactly @sel2223.
I was hoping @BalletCat would clarify what ‘behave as a woman’ means, as apparently it is something that some men can do. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I agreed with PPs that some people will be weirdos with fetishes but I don't believe they're the ones that are going to be asking for support at a LLL meeting.

I wouldn’t be so sure. Male sexuality is a strange beast and some men will go to very extreme lengths to get what they want to satisfy their urges. There have been plenty of fetishists with trans identities accessing women’s changing rooms, hospital wards and rape crisis support groups. Why would BFing support groups be any different?

Are you a women?

Just 'behave' exactly as you do now and you'll be fine

Desperate to know how I’m supposed to ‘behave as a woman’. If it involves wearing pink, drinking Prosecco and enjoying shopping trips, I’m fucked.

Using the baby to get their own gratification. Absolutely hideous.

Well I’m offended. I don’t want to see pictures of child abuse. Why do you think it’s acceptable?

Exactly this. If a man wants to change his body or wear different clothes or whatever, that's ok with me. But men cannot "be mothers" and they can't breastfeed.

Amazing how society is currently up in arms about the supposed generation of children who "have never heard no" and "don't realise the world doesn't revolve around them" but apparently a grown arse man who wants to go into what should be a female safe space/ live as "a mother" (does he also want the low pay, pressures and everything else that goes with it?) has to have their precious feelings considered above everything else.

In response to the OP - and steering deliberately clear of all posts going off on random tangents - the world has gone absolutely mad hasn't it?

I don't think anybody here is trying to say that any of this justifies violence towards trans women.

@BalletCat according to the transgender charity GIDD, only a very few TW have any surgery let alone bottom surgery. Most simply cross dress and some take hormones. Many don’t because they don’t like the libido effects of oestrogen.

there is zero benefit to babies of being fed chemically induced secretions from a male nipple. None. And vulnerable babies should be the only care here.