That The La Leche League have dangerously lost the plot?

@Barbie222 would you mind if I borrowed your words in conversation with other people?
You say in about fifty words what I'm always taking hundreds to try to express.

This is what I mean about people's moral compasses being insane/non existent

It's not a fact at all to compare men who want to play dresse up and be nonces to 'minorities'. Yes I have a phobia about men who want to sexually abuse children. And?

It's extremely strange that people get more hung up on perceived hurty words and mean names than the abuse of children.

Devastating, I know

Ugh. It's so depressing that so many women feel that way.

You keep evading this point. How are we to safeguard women and children when we can't tell? The option you are proposing is to forget about safeguarding. This is unacceptable to many people, not just bigots and haters. Why can't you understand that?

The poster totally understands this.

They just don't think safeguarding women and children is important. It's that simple.

@BalletCat

I also stand by the fact that random men aren't using LLL meetings to wonder in off the street and ogle at tits.

Random men would not be allowed in, so nobody's talking about that. Partners of breastfeeding women apparently would, as would biological males who say they are women and want to breastfeed.
Neither group should be able to violate women's privacy.

People saying all trans women are men in dresses with perverted fetishes are just uninformed and nasty.

Well yes, if they are saying it's all or even most who are fetishists. Otoh, anyone who says there are none who fit this description is a liar. That's the problem, balletcat, there are some and there's no guarantee of being able to tell which ones they are. You keep evading this point. How are we to safeguard women and children when we can't tell? The option you are proposing is to forget about safeguarding. This is unacceptable to many people, not just bigots and haters. Why can't you understand that?

I don't think so either. My purpose was just providing factual infomation. Young men of colour are the group most likely to be victims of violence. This should not be in dispute.

People saying all trans women are men in dresses with perverted fetishes are just uninformed and nasty.

I never said that I said that I know many trans women through my old work and 2 of them I am still good friends with. I knew many others and most want to live a quiet life and I would not actually have any problem with them sharing the female toilets with myself.

however 3 of the trans women I would not want them anywhere near women’s spaces as 2 indeed had perverted fetishes which they did not cover up. They were and no doubt still are disguising individuals. They also used to attend hate groups against lesbians.

One of them actually loved going into shops, cafes etc dressed in full biker leathers with a full beard. They then waiting for a member of staff to refer to /her him as Sir- They then went mad and started quoting the equality act and threatened to report the member or staff or company for hate crimes and then reported said person to the manger or even went over their head to upper management. They got many vouchers out of it. When they felt like it they also tried their best to get the police involved. The reasoning was they wore pink nail polish and had long hair so the staff should have noticed that and not assumed!!!!!

and so you know what my two trans women friends agree with all the above. Yes it is not the majority but how are we supposed to tell.

I put a lot of effort into breast feeding my baby but still had to use bottles and formula due to low supply. Did that make my effort pointless?

Absolutely nothing in my post suggested that mixed or bottle feeding was pointless? That's really clutching at straws.

Mixed / bottle feeding if EBF isn't working out is doing parenting right.

Bottle feeding by choice is doing parenting right.

Taking huge amounts of hormones when you know you will never be able to adequately feed a child because you don't have a female body isn't doing parenting right,

I notice you're out now @BalletCat, but thankfully your posts have helped clarify my thinking all right!

I also stand by the fact that random men aren't using LLL meetings to wonder in off the street and ogle at tits. People are deliberately blowing it out of proportion to make it as ridiculous as possible, as usual with trans issues on MN. I have literally never seen a trans woman in a changing room. The trans women I do know use the disabled or family because the don't feel safe in the men's and dont want to make women uncomfortable.

That's the problem though. They are the silent majority. As are two of the three TW I know. But the ones who make the most noise and demand access to women's facilities are the TRAs and precisely because they make so much noise they are the ones who get the ear of the government and institutions like LLL and rape crisis centres. Personally I think they are the ones who do the most harm to trans women.

And the question of what it means to feel and behave like a woman? Well every person with XX chromosomes has a different experience. We just ARE - regardless of hair, make up, clothes, careers choices. As a result of the chromosomes we have female sex characteristics but I don't go round every day thinking oh I have a uterus so I'm a woman. Again, I just am. I think it would be far more instructional to ask a trans woman what being a woman feels like. The TRAs seem to know better than we do.

This!!

They don't seem to be queuing up for prostate exams either.

There would be absolutely no need for a man with a fetish to have any kind of surgery to go to a breastfeeding group. Or hormones. Nothing.

If they wanted to 'lactate' they'd have ti take some drugs.

But what would be the 'reasonable' reason for a man joining a breastfeeding group. I'm all ears.

We know of some detransitioners, and at least one who hasn’t transitioned, who are disappointed to find that having a double mastectomy rules out being able to breastfeed.

As an example, the prominent UK trans man Freddie McConnell expressed sadness about being unable to provide any milk for his infant and described wishing his surgeon had maintained nipple placement so that the possibility of “chestfeeding” was retained.

(This is a supposedly intelligent person, a journalist.)

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/global-womens-health/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2023.1073053/full

I just don't believe that a man with a fetish would go to the length of literally transitioning which takes years, having top or bottom surgery, taking estrogen to alter their bodies and voices, having their own baby and then inducing lactation with a hormonal protocol.

That is exactly what a man with that fetish would do. Or they would short cut: no real transitioning necessary, just the drugs. And of course the vulnerable infant.

If a trans identifying woman wanted access to a testicular cancer support group, I'd consider that very odd and suspect behaviour.

Funnily enough, this doesn't seem to be something that happens.

And obviously any biological woman who's given birth should be welcomed to a breastfeeding support group.

I think it's terribly sad and an awful reflection on our society that women, particularly young and vulnerable ones, are attempting to opt out of it.

The pattern for trans identification among women is totally different to that among men. They are predominately very young. The nUmbers of middle age women suddenly deciding they are men are minuscule.

Aside from this, the dynamic is totally different for women anyway. Women in men's spaces are not endangering men, they are endangering themselves.

There are so many threads on this subject going on all the time I can’t believe you’ve never spotted them but this is about the LLL and breastfeeding in particular.

Try a MN search

Presuming you mean biological women? Of the sex capable of breastfeeding. Regardless of how they identify, in a single sex space they belong with other women/females. If they need help to breastfeed, then these groups would be appropriate.

Seriously. This has got to be a wind up.

This thread has made me wonder: what is your opinion about/attitude towards Trans Men?

Yes but I think there's more to it.

We seem to have lost any sense of a robust moral framework that we can apply to society.

So as soon these men presented themselves as 'most oppressed' and demanding 'respect' and for us all to 'be kind' - significant proportions of people fell over themselves to do that without thinking about a) the impact on the genuinely vulnerable and b) the motivations for these men's actions.

Working our way towards this