To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

As someone once famously wrote on here " toddlers are cunts"
It passes

It's more expectations that rules I think for example the rule/expectation in our house is you can have any part of you on a floor but no standing on chairs/tables/counters (mine were & still are climbers!) & no sitting on tables/counters so anyone who did that was simply removed (& yes often a furious tantrum happened). Removed with "we keep our feet for floors in the house" & then distracted with what is the biggest thing you can climb/let's go in the garden to climb/which playpark has the best thing to climb. And often they're still furious & all you can do is say I know you're feeling cross because you want to climb on the table but it's not safe.

it all sounds hideously awkward written out 🙈

When they're a bit older then it was more why we didn't do things or what they could do instead but always in positive action terms because small people hear the verb most ("we walk beside the road"rather than "we don't run")

Also I didn't/don't do rules that don't matter - if it was cold & they didn't want a coat I'd grab it in case they wanted it later (mine all run hot so often I carried several coats 😂 ). If they wanted to splash in puddles I had a change of clothes in the car etc smalls don't do foresight so I figure that's the bit we help with.

(plus getting them outside makes everything better)

I'm finding it hard to think of examples but I remember how hard it is the first time you're balancing the needs of a baby & rampaging toddler/3 yr old. That moment you have to get the baby home but big sister/brother just refuses to leave the park/woods & if I could just stay calm despite the sleep deprivation it was ok, she wouldn't leave but did want me to blow a magic bubble so she could float home, would help me look for the insects "over there", liked to run to the next leaf on the ground to jump on it 🤷‍♀️😂

Quite frankly, if we're being told now that even time outs are inappropriate, then parents are being deliberately set up to fail, as are the kids in later life.

This is great advice. I do
this with putting shoes in the shoe cupboard etc.

I don't think a well timed smack is always a bad thing if it teaches them that they've reached the end of the line in a situation or doing something dangerous. I think the key with that is it is so rare it has a shock factor to it and it makes them listen and concentrate on what the adult is actually telling them.

Day to day though I think it comes down to expectations. You expect your child to put their shoes in a certain place and do it as routine, for example. You expect them to sit still in a restaurant and to stay with you nicely in a shop. It's also about positive attention. Ignore the behaviour they are doing to wind you up - stop them without emotion or conversation - but notice the good stuff. It is easy to do it the other way around.

It it easy to tell which children have no boundaries , exhausted parents and negative attention compared with the children whose parents have proper boundaries and gentle parenting done the right way. Preschoolers do actually quite like rules - they tell tales on their friends too! They key is making sure all the adults are consistent with the rules, redirection before a behaviour becomes a problem and positive attention. It isn't an easy stage but they do grow out of it in time!

at that age even if they laugh or whatever you just need to be consistent and don’t react to the laughing.

but things like laundry I would get him helping with it instead of making it a battle ground.

At 3 he probably was just thinking he was actually helping with the laundry? But you are right, things can become a hilarious game once they know it comes with a reaction from you.

My son went through a stage of refusing to put his banana skins in the bin. He found it amusing (and he ate lots of bananas!). I just left the banana where it was and explained he wasn't getting anything else until it was in the bin. Literally nothing. No toys, no drink, no snack, no games, no garden. I mean they get bored quick so there was always something they wanted. I just said no, not until the banana peel is in the bin. I'd try the same tactic with the washing on the floor, although I would give him a hand once he started as it might be too heavy for him to do alone.

After that thank him for being a good boy and tidying up, having a high five or a cuddle and then yes we can get that fun toy out or go in the garden or whatever it was he wanted.

He never refuses to throw his litter away now. It might take a couple of goes to sink in though.

@Morwenscapacioussleeves spot on. That's what I wanted to say but didn't put into words half as well. 🤣

Nah 3 yr olds have always been wild!

BUT they are also not all the same - I remember a friend when we had toddlers asking why all the kitchen cupboards in my house had childlocks on them I said "because otherwise mine would empty the cupboards every day" oh she says I just tell mine they shouldn't 😂

Two of mine are now teenagers so I feel more confident saying I never did any punishment at all & they're genuinely nice helpful kind kids. The two books I would recommend are Playful Parenting & Unconditional Parenting both of which I found when I needed back up/language for what I did instinctively.

The most helpful thing of all I found was to reframe what they're doing as not just to make me crazy! Assume good intentions! (This is key with teens too) So removing the wet washing is probably an amazing sensory experience & it makes a satisfying noise when it hits the ground.
The second most helpful is to simply prevent things you don't want so childproof stuff/remove them.

Having said all that I vividly remember the hardest times were whenever I had a 2 or 3 yr old plus a baby in my arms or breastfeeding in my lap. Distraction was usually best but it is hard when you're exhausted.

The traits we find difficult in children are often the very traits we value in adults.

We had & still have firm rules & expectations btw it's not anarchy! It's kids having no rules or expectations which I think is bad for us/society/the future.

It’s mad that time out is seen as negative now imho. You’re just removing them from the situation and giving them some quiet time. They are probably still only 2 seconds away from you so the idea that they’re not able to co-regulate with you isn’t really true (unless you’re putting them in the cellar or something!!)

Yes, and also in Ireland, you don't have gangs of kids hanging around street corners.

Because you can’t always just move a child away. If you remove them from the dryer they will keep coming back. Then you risk having a child screaming and upset because they are separated from y out (eg with a stair gate). I don’t see what’s sad about teaching a child consequences.

“what you’re doing is not good behaviour. Mummy has said no. If you keep doing it there will be no ice cream later”.

thats life. Life has consequences. Children who don’t learn about consequences don’t turn into functioning members of society. School is not able to remove them from
situations - school is going to teach them about consequences.

If you do that again, your toy is going in the bin.

You think that's cruel?

If you get another speeding ticket, we will take your licence away.

Is that also cruel?

Actions have consequently.

100% this it’s extremely simple if done early on.

no coat? No outside. Same with hats, suncream etc. same with tooth brushing and things they HAVE to do like homework. There are hard lines of things children just need to accept and follow and letting them make their own decisions about these things for an easy life is detrimental to them.

I had a mini-time out type approach that I could use anywhere. I also didn't reason with my DCs a lot at 3, they simply don't interstate. They just need to understand ' stop that' And 'no'.

So in this situation this is how I works have escalated it:

1. Josh, stop pulling things out of the dryer please

1. Josh, I've told you to stop. Now come and help me with x, or go and do y.

1. If it still doesn't stop, remove him from where he is and sit him firmly on any chair, stool, sofa near you, with no distractions.

You can literally do this anywhere, without making a big deal of it either.

It's definitely better here in Ireland. I don't recognise any of this and I am teaching in a disadvantaged inner city school and my husband is in secondary teaching. Discipline issues are rare, and so are sanctions.

As the parent of a fellow DGAF three year old I have every sympathy! And I have thought similarly.

My main approach is physical boundaries, every single time, even though it drives me round the bend. Whether that’s moving him away or moving the thing away. The difficult bit is being more stubborn than a three year old! But it works.

I find the posts above which are searching for something to make a three year old upset by, pretty sad.

They don't allow children to be the focus of the family unit. Children are seen as the product of a relationship, not the reason for the relationship. The children learn very quickly that they come second to the adults who surround them. They know their place and consequently they feel more secure. 10 year old boys don't run around trying to be the "man" of the house, because they know who IS in charge. Children are included in most aspects of life and situations, they are taken to restaurants where there isn't any "children's menu", they are encouraged to become adults, not forced into staying children because they happen to be a particular age.

More importantly, there is consensus amongst the adults that children are children, and there is trust that other adults can and do parent by proxy. So adults will absolutely tell off another's child. It is expected and welcomed, there is absolutely no confusion from the part of the children about their place in the hierarchy.

Op asked for ideas. If you have a better idea you are welcome to post it. My idea worked for my kids and I've enjoyed some stress free years of good behaviour nobody has PTSD because an amalgamation of cotton and wool in the shape of a bear went in the bin years ago

Timeout is fine. All children need boundaries.

That's not the way to discipline a 3 year old.

It works though. Parents buy the toys and kids should know if they play up the toys will be taken away