To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

I didn't see kids being smacked at all where I live when my kids were little. (Now 17 and 19) Something I've noticed is that teenagers are kinder and less bullying than when I was a kid. They are more tolerant of differences too.

What do you mean?

In these cases I ask myself, What do I see? What could it be? What do they need from me?

It helps me to objectivfy the behaviour so I'm less triggered, get curious about what need isn't being met or what they need, then problem solve to meet the need more appropriately.

So in that case...is it and attempt connection or play? A misguided attempt at helping? A power test? A need to throw or move something? Or testing a response from you to see if it is the same as before?

Distraction, and narrating what I see are my go to.

I wonder if you need a cuddle as you're trying to get me to look at you?

Or

Hey, can you find 2 pairs of trousers?

He doesn't need a consequence, he needs a grown up to connect the dot for him and show him how to ask for what he needs in a different way.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2021/07/when-your-child-keeps-ignoring-boundaries-and-breaking-rules-try-this/

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2023/11/our-strong-willed-child-is-running-the-show/

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2014/07/4-toddler-testing-behaviors-and-how-to-cope/

Here's an example but if you Google her you'll find so many articles. She is brilliant on toilet learning - neither of mine were 'trained'and it was easy easy and stress free for me. She is really good.

Janet Lansbury is very good on all this OP, and you can either listen or read her pieces. She emphasises the importance if your calm and also you being breezy, unbothered as you know you're the leader and in charge and dc won't be getting his way.

I think the reason smacking was ever a thing was a case of needing the shortest possible route to discipline. When families had ten children, and there weren't the washing machines, dishwashers, kitchen gadgets etc we have today, threat of a smack was the most simple, time-efficient method.

I find your post incredibly honest OP and that is very refreshing.

I seem to see more and more parents who appear exactly how you are describing dealing with their kids behaviour.

Disciplining is either a scary minefield or something that is deemed very bad to do and parents are frightened to do.

I believe this leads to children who grow up feeling they are ruling the roost and teenagers who are lost between the sense of entitlement that they can do what they want and getting involved in things they are not yet able to manage and the deep feeling of wish that they were still little kids with parents who make the decisions for them and as such keep them safe.

Disciplining a young child is not just about teaching them boundaries and respecting others. It's also about giving them the reassuring boundaries that they don't have to be on control and that they are trusted and reliable parents do do that for them.

Of course kids will kick in, argue, fight, have tantrums when disciplined but that doesn't mean they are not aware, deep inside, that it actually make them feel safe.

God yes the repeating the rule/expectations over and over. It does work though op, honest! Just waiting until they start reminding YOU how to behave 🤣

I agree with this and the other poster who mentioned it's probably time/attention they're bothered about, not possessions etc, especially at that young age.

I'm 35 and was never hit/smacked/tapped as a child, ever. My parents would shout sometimes, in the moment, but were mostly "firm but fair" parents. I obviously don't remember being 3 but I remember being told off and as I got older I remember them giving me some freedom with clear boundaries etc.

I think your example is a bit "meh" to be honest op - he's 3 and ok yeah he was being silly and cheeky, but he wasn't violent, rude or doing anything remotely dangerous. Maybe do a sticker chart or something, so if he helps he gets a sticker but if he messes about make it clear he isn't getting one for this instance because he just messed about, but maybe he'll get one later for helping with something properly? My son is older, almost 4.5 - I'm not sure if that would have worked at 3 but it's definitely showing positive signs now.

Also, time outs are ok as long as it's not a big "shame" type thing, I think? Weirdly we've never consciously done them but my son has, from a very young age, taken to going behind a sofa or to his room when really upset/angry and will often have a few minutes kicking off (while we remind him we're here for him when he's ready) then just re-appearing having calmed down/cheered up.

Are teenagers / young adults less trouble these days? What are the mental heath statistics like?
I’m old ( 61 ) so my kids are adults now, I never smacked them, but I know a few people who did smack their children back then.
I can’t really see a difference in society tbh, if anything it seems young people are more violent. But maybe that’s due to other factors? I don’t know. The internet? Drugs?

How old is the other child?

Ah yes, I can see the difference there for sure. No one could criticised that.

Yes he is three but you do need to start as you mean to go on.
No is no.
Don't bother if you are not going to ensure he does what is asked of him. You need to be consistent.

Our Ds used to help with the washing he would get it out and 'hang it" on the maiden can you give him things to do to engage him.

I would lock one of the kitchen doors while this is his thing, if he keeps throwing the washing he goes in his bedroom, out of the way until he learns to be around the washing without throwing it around. He apologises then comes out to play. At 3 they understand the word No. they need to know their actions have consequences -

@Blanketpolicy so there is no difference except for the name, which is what the poster asked. Naughty step / thinking time / thinking spot / time out... it's all the same - the kid sits in spot x for a certain period of time and calms down. The only difference is in language/ negative connotations.

Yes there is a difference , ds sat on the step to calm down when overwhelmed, as he learn’t how to calm down himself, or realised there was no point getting angry, and his vocab improved we used it less. It was never called the naughty step which has negative connotations, it was always I know you are upset/angry so sit there to calm down/feel better then we’ll talk about it. We never used the words time out either, but if used calmly by the parent it is pretty neutral.

This is developmentally normal. At 3yo, distraction and removal are your best techniques.

Sanctions are for serious things, really, and throwing the washing off the line is not serious.

I think the advice to start the sentence with their name so they focus is excellent and short sentences. Use "stop" rather than "no" (which is often a trigger word, because what you actually want is for them to stop). And rather than say "please" which means "if you please" / a plea, say "thank you". That sets an expectation rather than if it pleases them

See I think this is worse than smacking. It’s like mental torture. Whereas a smack is a short shock that immediately makes think: ouch, why did that happen. I’m obviously not taking about a beating, but a slap on the thigh with a loud NO would be enough to jolt the child into thought and they’d quickly learn that if they don’t listen and do as told, that this would happen.
my kids are grown up anyway so I won’t be smacking anyone! But I think mental torture is as bad, if not worse, than a quick smack.

I may be reading it wrong but it does sound that child does not respect your bounderies.

Child should not be afraid of you but should have clear pack order where they know parents put bounderies and they have to listen in certain situations.
They will test the limits, and if there are no limits they will keep pushing as they need limits to feel safe.
That does not mean child should listen at every comand like a police dog as you don't want people pleasing dependant, but there should be something in your voice to make certain things off limits.

Some children are strong willed (my DS) but if you make a point that some battles are only yours to win he may be less inclined to pick those. Cannot remeber the name of the book (if anyone knows title pls help) but it was about strong willed children needing extra strong bounderies and a lot of opportunities to show leadership (deciding what to wear, what to eat, where to go etc.)

Good luck, it is not easy having child who has a lot of character. Especially if is yiur first one [looking at you my diabolycal DS 💖].

This is exactly what happened at preschool- a thinking chair and the visual sand timer. It gave the child time to calm down and then you could help them understand why what they did was unacceptable. Usually followed by a big hug and back to play.

I wonder how nurseries deal with challenging behaviour? (It is normally worse at home, in their safe space!)

That was the only book which helped me parent my textbook ADHD child. Amazing and utterly grounded book

We did warnings. If 3 ignored then time out or 'thinking time' at the bottom of the stairs.

Same in public but instead of a time out it was going straight home.

Kids need boundaries and consequences.