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Original poster

To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

189 replies

bustroubles · 04/05/2024 08:50

I need to stress here I’m not advocating a return to smacking or anything like that. It’s horrible. Equally though I do sometimes wonder …

I suppose modern parenting hasn’t rendered you helpless if your child cares about sanctions but mine doesn’t. He’s three and I am mindful I don’t remember being three but I don’t think I was like this?

This morning he started throwing still damp clothes out of the drier. Told to stop over and over. Ignored me then ran off laughing. I’m just feeling helpless and a bit of a twat. I’ve no consequence he cares about, and time out isn’t recommended, smacking (which I’m positive my parents would have done to me in that instance) is illegal.

Maybe I have a particularly obstinate one but I don’t know … feeling a bit Hmm about it all. I know everyone will tell me what I did wrong but really I’m asking something deeper than that, if we’re just helpless now and reliant on our children’s good will?

OP posts:
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NoisySnail · 07/05/2024 13:38

@CelesteCunningham I think she did not answer my question because she realises it is impossible to do what she advocates.
And I have seen young children being moved away from something dangerous, and as soon as they are put down, run giggling back to where they were. At some point you have to say no.

CelesteCunningham · 05/05/2024 20:28

tiredinoratia · 05/05/2024 20:01

My response to this would be that in those situations they need preparing for that in advance and support given at the time.

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But you can't prepare a child in advance for the fact that they can't take the wet clothes out of the dryer. Because you've been putting clothes in the dryer every day for the three years they've been alive and they've never cared before.

And in the bigger picture, every parent does their best to prepare their toddler for the baby's arrival and the fact that they will have to share mummy and daddy. But every toddler still has trouble with that at times.

NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 20:02

@tiredinoratia how do you prepare in advance and what support do you give?

tiredinoratia · 05/05/2024 20:01

NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 18:07

"He doesn't need a consequence, he needs a grown up to connect the dot for him and show him how to ask for what he needs in a different way."

Sometimes, but not always. Because children can not always have what they want, and that includes your attention at that moment.

My response to this would be that in those situations they need preparing for that in advance and support given at the time.

User345939 · 05/05/2024 19:52

Lack of respect for anyone, hurting other children and teachers, answering back and questioning all authority. Homework not being completed because the child doesn't want to and the parent can't get them to. All happens every single day and it's getting to the point where it's closer to the majority of the class rather than the minority.

Then when poor DC has a consequence put in place for their behaviour by the school the parents are complaining.

If children aren't taught consequences and respect at a young age it continues to escalate.

I have children myself and I don't agree with and do not smack however I see nothing wrong with time out and consequences alongside a system of rewarding positive behaviour.

Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 19:26

User345939 · 05/05/2024 19:24

Reading this thread is eye opening and goes a long way to explaining the extreme behaviours I witness every single day in young primary school children.

Sorry can you go a bit further with this? I’m interested

User345939 · 05/05/2024 19:24

Reading this thread is eye opening and goes a long way to explaining the extreme behaviours I witness every single day in young primary school children.

Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 19:22

@Welovecrumpets thats because I don’t really have one. I think a few things can be true at the same time and I also think that some problems can be replaced with others.

@Mischance you were saying you’d deal with it by making it a fun game. You wouldn’t be able to do that if he ran off, would you? 😅

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Mischance · 05/05/2024 19:15

bustroubles · 04/05/2024 13:25

Aww come on. No you wouldn’t. They were all wet; they’d only just gone in. And by the time you’d got the laundry basket he’d have ran off giggling anyway. I don’t mind suggestions but let’s be realistic.

All you have to do is try it.

So - he runs off giggling while you get the laundry basket - why is that a problem?

Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 19:13

I don’t really understand your stance tbh. You think modern parenting is too soft, but kids aren’t worse behaved, that strict parenting means beating children and that although you disagree with that you want your child to be a bit more cowed by you?

Sorry I just can’t quite see what it is you’re trying to say?

Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 19:02

Thats all modern parenting: nothing to do with Covid?

Badly behaved students have always existed. I don’t think there’s a correlation between that and modern parenting. I do think that as I said in my OP modern parenting doesn’t have adults in control. Is that bad? When your three year old is emptying the contents of your drier it is. But in a broader sense perhaps it isn’t. I know children now are less likely to be cowed by adults . I sometimes wish my child was a little cowed by me, though!

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Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 18:52

NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 18:45

The super strict academies are a reaction against so many badly behaved children.

Aye, and when were they brought in?

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NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 18:45

The super strict academies are a reaction against so many badly behaved children.

NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 18:44

bustroubles · 05/05/2024 18:35

ach come on. There have always been really badly behaved kids, hence why reform schools and Borstals once existed. I’m not in favour of some sort of return to smacking, sarcasm, downright cruelty - but I’d like some honest narrative around the fact that a lot of the techniques pushed are no more than ‘don’t do that or I’ll tell you not to do that again,’

Totally agree. The two methods seem to be, move them away from whatever they are doing or distract them with a toy or similar. For most children this works for a small amount of time when they are tiny. But you soon it no longer works.

And I will tell you to stop, you might or might not stop, and I will tell you again until one of us gives up. And again this works sometimes for some children and all the time for more biddable children, but leaves lots of children who totally ignore what their parent says and do what they want to do.

Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 18:42

I teach myself. It’s not what I’ve personally found to be the case but we’re all different and have different experiences.

I can assure you though that 25 years ago teachers were told to fuck off, were physically assaulted, were insulted, kids would refuse to complete work, would throw pens you gave them across the room.

Interestingly a lot of super strict academies also draw criticism (Michaela and the like) so not really sure what the answer is. It isn’t smacking though.

OP posts:
Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 18:39

bustroubles · 05/05/2024 18:35

ach come on. There have always been really badly behaved kids, hence why reform schools and Borstals once existed. I’m not in favour of some sort of return to smacking, sarcasm, downright cruelty - but I’d like some honest narrative around the fact that a lot of the techniques pushed are no more than ‘don’t do that or I’ll tell you not to do that again,’

Not to this extent. Ask anybody who has been teaching 30 years. Hop over to the Staffroom board and have a read.

Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 18:38

shockeditellyou · 04/05/2024 11:50

I think a short sharp bollocking is more useful than wittering on about all kinds of mummy doesn’t like that nonsense.

And there’s only so far you can take the “engineer situation so child is never asked to modify their behaviour” To use the chocolate in fridge analogy- how do you get to the point where you can keep chocolate in the fridge/expect washing not to be thrown on the floor if you never expect them to leave stuff alone?

I massively agree with this. Al this ‘move them away, distract them’ means they never find out what they did wrong so it sets them up to fail really.

Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 18:35

ach come on. There have always been really badly behaved kids, hence why reform schools and Borstals once existed. I’m not in favour of some sort of return to smacking, sarcasm, downright cruelty - but I’d like some honest narrative around the fact that a lot of the techniques pushed are no more than ‘don’t do that or I’ll tell you not to do that again,’

OP posts:
Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 18:13

mikado1 · 05/05/2024 09:43

Please can we put smacking to bed as an option? It is illegal here in Ireland BTW. I was never smacked and never had any behavioural difficulties, flew through school etc. Never in trouble. Meanwhile, I would bet the majority of people in prison were smacked so the idea that all the problems today are because we're not smacking, doesn't add up. Disaffection, lack of connection, real quality time, laughter and joy and being validated etc, this is what is important. As they grow, hear them out, let them make no loss decisions, don't shout too much, think the best of them, name their feelings when they can't, set limits and boundaries so they feel safe and know their adults are the ones in charge.

I mean it all sounds great on paper but if it worked we wouldn’t be seeing the most aggressive, entitled, rude, and generally horrendous behaviour in kids and teens yet. Which is sadly almost uniformly reported by teachers and early years professionals.

Welovecrumpets · 05/05/2024 18:10

I think modern parenting is rubbish in general. Encourages navel gazing, mitigates against every negative feeling, the kid clicks their fingers and the parent jumps to attention for fear of ‘traumatising’ them. Our local Facebook page is a classic example - ‘my kid just said they want to see giraffes, where can I go today within a 2 hour drive that has giraffes’. Totally nuts.

And teenagers! If I’d spoken to my parents the way teens on here speak to their parents, holy hell I can’t even imagine what the consequences would’ve been. Hence I didn’t do it!

NoisySnail · 05/05/2024 18:07

"He doesn't need a consequence, he needs a grown up to connect the dot for him and show him how to ask for what he needs in a different way."

Sometimes, but not always. Because children can not always have what they want, and that includes your attention at that moment.

Original poster
bustroubles · 05/05/2024 10:12

mikado1 · 05/05/2024 09:37

What do you mean?

Show quote history

I honestly don't know what she’s suggesting to deal with that child (the one who laughs when you tell them to get down from a table.)

I did have to skim it a bit as I have two very young ones with me but I couldn’t see any solutions or suggestions.

OP posts:
Trumpetoftheswan2 · 05/05/2024 09:44

Imvhe, when very young children see you holding their younger sibling, it seems to impel them to do something to capture your attention. It's especially effective if it's something that needs you to put the baby down to sort out.

mikado1 · 05/05/2024 09:43

Please can we put smacking to bed as an option? It is illegal here in Ireland BTW. I was never smacked and never had any behavioural difficulties, flew through school etc. Never in trouble. Meanwhile, I would bet the majority of people in prison were smacked so the idea that all the problems today are because we're not smacking, doesn't add up. Disaffection, lack of connection, real quality time, laughter and joy and being validated etc, this is what is important. As they grow, hear them out, let them make no loss decisions, don't shout too much, think the best of them, name their feelings when they can't, set limits and boundaries so they feel safe and know their adults are the ones in charge.