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Been refused any annual leave this year.

319 replies

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:12

§Name changed as I don’t want my name to be associated as I know some people who work for the same company are on here.

I am entitled to 25 days annual leave, which increases every year after two years.

If you don’t take all your annual leave you can carry over 35 hours but if you don’t take the rest then you lose it.

Things are made more complicated by the fact that people are allowed to buy additional annual leave, and this means that a lot of people have up to 35 days.

The upshot of this is that there isn’t enough quota in the calendar to allow all annual leave requests.

Our annual leave system is digital, we book annual leave and receive a message to say it is either declined or accepted.

And the annual leave is based on how many people are available in the department not the team.

Most people end up booking all their annual leave at the beginning of the year, including their extra two weeks which most people have bought.

Which means that if you haven’t booked any annual leave for the next year by the end of December when the annual leave is released on to the system you pretty much don’t stand a chance.

I didn’t book as soon as the leave was released not least because I didn’t have any specific plans, but even when I started to try a couple of days in all my requests were declined.

To date I have attempted to book several weeks in every month of the year, and apart from one week in December, and one day which I know I will get over Christmas because those are booked separately, every one of my requests has been declined.

So this means that by the end of the year I am going to have about four weeks annual leave left, and I can only carry over one week.
I am certain that this is made worse by the fact that people are able to buy extra leave and that realistically we don’t have enough quota in the department to accommodate existing annual leave as wel as essentially several months worth when you take into account all that has been bought.

Some people have 6/7 weeks booked in, and I can’t even get one.

I’m sure there’s no way I can get the time off, so I’ve resigned myself to not taking any annual leave this year apart from that one week in December.

But would it be reasonable to approach my employer and request that, given I’ve been declined any leave, they buy it back off me? I don’t know what else to do.

OP posts:
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6
theemmadilemma · 03/05/2024 15:44

Your line manger said her hands are tied? What a fucking shit show and response.

It's a legal requirement. She can either decide to deal with it or you go round her. But you cannot be denied your holiday entitlement.

SummerInSun · 03/05/2024 15:41

I agree re calling ACAS.

rookiemere · 03/05/2024 15:41

Surely there must be some full weeks available.
Have you requested November? Nobody ever takes time off then.

Next year stick all your annual leave requests in as soon as you are allowed, easier to change once they are in, but don't lose it for this year. You have had some great suggestions around wording, they can't sack you for taking your legally entitled holidays.

Bosses hands may be as tied as yours and she may welcome an edict saying people can't buy extra holidays going forward.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 03/05/2024 15:39

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:29

I think it’s complicated by the fact that we all work shifts.

So my hours can be anywhere between 8 in the morning until 8 at night, which means there’s potential for an overlap.

So let’s say I’m working from 12-8, the quota left to be allowed time off is 7. So if someone extra s on an 8-4 shift, and has that day off, my day off will be declined because four of their hours off overlap with four hours that i want.

It doesn’t complicate matters at all, it just means your annual leave entitlement will be in hours. We do this all the time for flexible working patterns. If your organisation has a full time week of 40 hours then as a legal minimum you should be taking 224 hours leave a year (including bank holidays)

ArcaneWireless · 03/05/2024 15:37

I work shifts.

if I cannot take all my leave - as long as I can show I tried to take it and was declined, I can carry every outstanding day over.

if there is not enough capacity to give you your standard leave, then why the hell are they allowing others extra?

Zanatdy · 03/05/2024 15:35

Your managers hands might be tied but then you write to HR. Legally they have to let you have the minimum, so they will have to find some dates. Next year you’ll have to be more organised and just select certain weeks and make plans based around the weeks you’ve chosen

WittyBird · 03/05/2024 15:35

user1471554720 · 03/05/2024 14:18

Ask if your employer could put a special request in to override the system. You are entitled ti annual leave including 2 weeks taken consecutively.

The system is set up for everyone to take their 25 days. They probably don't realise that if everyone buys more annual leave, then there won't be enough cover. People should not be allowed buy leave if there is no cover, or else extra staff should be employed.

There is no absolute entitlement to 2 weeks consecutive leave!

Tel12 · 03/05/2024 15:32

No organisation can deprive you if your statutory entitlement, no matter how inconvenient. You need to point this out to your line management.

SqueakyDinosaur · 03/05/2024 15:32

This is appalling and illegal, as PPs have already said. I would talk to your manager and say that you will be escalating to HR. Up to you how you play it, but I would probably make it sound sympathetic ("I understand that your hands are tied and you're in a difficult position, but this isn't actually legal, it's a problem for everyone in the department and I need to take it to HR so that they can resolve it") - if you're lucky she'll support you, but even if she doesn't, then hopefully she won't feel like you're complaining about her, just the policy.

There's an excellent cartoon series on TikTok/FB of an assertive woman called Veronica dealing with her manager's unreasonable demands: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark_tales0/video/7324794220030479648 I think you need to channel your inner Veronica!

https://www.tiktok.com/@dark_tales0/video/7324794220030479648

DirectionToPerfection · 03/05/2024 15:32

TakeOnFlea · 03/05/2024 15:14

"I’m sure there’s no way I can get the time off, so I’ve resigned myself to not taking any annual leave this year apart from that one week in December."

These shit managers rely on pushovers like you to allow them to crawl to the top. You're so passive when you should be fucking incensed!

Demand your annual leave! Those who have bought leave will have to have some cancelled to accommodate won't they

This. Wake up OP.

Email HR and tell them you have tried numerous times to book leave and every time it has been rejected. Also that you have raised the issue with your manager but it has not been resolved.

Again, it is illegal for them to withhold annual leave. Their shit system is not your problem.

tealady · 03/05/2024 15:31

It might be worth having a read of this guidance from ACAS https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement/asking-for-and-taking-holiday as it also has suggestions about how to take things further. Or you could contact their helpline for advice.

Paid annual leave is a legal right and there are processes that can be followed if you do not feel able to take your leave. I appreciate that in the real world it can be hard to take action if you need your job but there is more information here and you could consider raising a formal grievance in order to escalate the issue.
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

It's totally wrong that you are being put in this position.

Asking for and taking holiday - Holiday entitlement - Acas

How to request holiday, and when an employer can refuse or cancel holiday.

https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement/asking-for-and-taking-holiday

Gazelda · 03/05/2024 15:30

mrsdineen2 · 03/05/2024 15:23

Actually, I'm not directly involved in the sector, but I thought blocks of leave were mandatory in banks? As an anti fraud measure?

That's what I understood, too.

OP, does your employer have an Employee Welfare policy? Is there all sorts plastered over noticeboards about wellbeing? If so, reference these in your conversations with HR.

5foot5 · 03/05/2024 15:28

Also, when I worked for a US bank, employees were meant to have 2 consecutive work weeks out of the office - this could include external training, but it was meant to be time with no logging on to work systems, because it was easier for any fraudulent activities to shoe up in that time.*@EBearhug I used to work for a medium sized UK building society and they had the same rule.

BelindaOkra · 03/05/2024 15:27

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:23

My line manager is sympathetic but her hands are tied.

We are beholden to a particular department who allow or don’t allow requests. They even set people’s schedules and can tell us we’re not allowed to have meetings if we’re busy. Everyone hates them. It’s the sort of department you wouldn’t want to work because you wouldn’t want people to know you worked there 😂

Go above your manager and to HR. They can’t act illegally because they have a stupid system

titchy · 03/05/2024 15:25

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:29

I think it’s complicated by the fact that we all work shifts.

So my hours can be anywhere between 8 in the morning until 8 at night, which means there’s potential for an overlap.

So let’s say I’m working from 12-8, the quota left to be allowed time off is 7. So if someone extra s on an 8-4 shift, and has that day off, my day off will be declined because four of their hours off overlap with four hours that i want.

I don't think that does complicate matters - it's the same situation as if you all worked 9-5. The two shifts cannot be taken such that there is no overlap. Therefore if anyone has leave, no one else can have leave that same day.

Iwasafool · 03/05/2024 15:25

Legally you are entitled to 5.6 weeks per year so if you work a 5 day week pattern you are legally entitled to 28 days. Contact your manager and explain you can't book your legal entitlement and obviously don't want the company to be breaking the law so can they sort out some dates.

mrsdineen2 · 03/05/2024 15:23

Actually, I'm not directly involved in the sector, but I thought blocks of leave were mandatory in banks? As an anti fraud measure?

KellyMaureen · 03/05/2024 15:22

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 14:34

No I work for a bank.

My mother worked for a bank. They were draconian about holidays.

Pulltheother · 03/05/2024 15:20

This is incompetence from the line manager.

The system doesn't work to allow everyone to have their leave, but it can't possibly be true that "the company" , a big bank, intends to deprive staff of their legal right to take leave.

The line manage needs to sort it out by taking it to whoever she needs to to get it done.

I agree with PP, put everything in writing and ask LM to confirm you've understood correctly that you are unable to to take your legal entitlement to annual leave.

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 03/05/2024 15:18

Oh and definitely look for another job, I refuse to believe this is the only way they are treating staff badly.

FlamingoFloss · 03/05/2024 15:18

Do you have an HR department? You need to bring this up with them

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 03/05/2024 15:17

Ok so not public service - right this needs sorting and fast, or else you’ll be blamed as more than half the year will be gone. also believe if they must give you 2 weeks in a block for fsa rules.

I’d speak to the line manager again, say you understand they’re hands are tied but you need to sort this, so do they want to escalate or are they happy for you to do so?

then email HR, cc’ing in your line manager and head of hated department, explaining you have tried to book leave and it has all been rejected and that you’ve also been told there is no full week at any point this year you would be allowed to take leave. That obviously that is not an acceptable or legal situation so how do they suggest you proceed?

that you need to take 23 days leave at least this year, you would like to take at least one full week, can they advise which days you can have off work?

they might well turn round and say they can’t help, but it’s in writing for next steps. Make sure you put in a line about that clearly the system of booking leave needs to be updated as this doesn’t seem an efficient use of company resources.

BananasForBrains · 03/05/2024 15:17

HolidayNotAvailable · 03/05/2024 15:13

LOL I knew there was a good reason for name changes. Unless of course there’s more than one with this practice. Wouldn’t surprise me tbh.

I think you’re right to be careful, best to keep personal life and work as separate as you can! :-) I’m sure you will manage to get somewhere with escalating it, as others say you are entitled to the holiday! X

TakeOnFlea · 03/05/2024 15:14

"I’m sure there’s no way I can get the time off, so I’ve resigned myself to not taking any annual leave this year apart from that one week in December."

These shit managers rely on pushovers like you to allow them to crawl to the top. You're so passive when you should be fucking incensed!

Demand your annual leave! Those who have bought leave will have to have some cancelled to accommodate won't they