To be surprised and shocked that PIP is rewarded without official diagnosis?

@Borntrippy To return to your question about washing, many people with severe MH conditions who need support/prompting to wash are somewhat ‘malodorous’. It’s normally pretty obvious if someone hasn’t been washing properly in a while.

You realise that yoy need evidence to back up your claim?
Yea there are people who put in claims for very tenuous reasons ,I see it all the time on the DLA group I'm on but most if not all don't actually succeed in their claim .

At risk of being lambasted here, I think the vast majority of people would like to see a system where when people can help themselves, they do, where when people need support, they receive it, and where people who don't need the extra support, they respectfully decline in order to afford that support for someone else who may be struggling.
The age old dilemma is those who won't versus those who can't. Not one government has been able to successfully identify with 100% reliability who won't help themselves and who can't.
And so you will always have a few wonts amongst the many can'ts.
However, I think it needs to be asked, if there are a small section of people who are applying for support who don't need it, what is their motivation for wanting this support?
Is it that they feel a wet room would be beneficial to them? 🤔
Or maybe they feel that they would prefer to wear incontinence pants instead of going to the toilet during the night? 🤔
Or maybe they feel that they need the PIP/DLA money in order to support themselves/their families and they don't see another way to raise the funding?
Perhaps if those few wonts didn't feel they needed the extra support, they wouldn't go through the rigmarole of applying for it in the first place?

So wouldn't it be better all around to offer everyone the support they feel they need to be as productive in society as its possible for them to be?
Some people won't need support, some people will, but if people are claiming PIP/DLA, they obviously do feel they need that support and why should that be limited to any particular diagnosed disability?
If there was a way to eradicate their need of that support, then wouldn't it be a good idea to work out exactly how the support benefits them in the first place and start there.
Some people with disabilities can be helped by reasonable adjustments, or a wet room, or a wheelchair ramp, or therapy, or many different types of support, but its not always available.
This is what needs to be addressed!
Cater the support people need to the individual, instead of lumping them all in the same category, which doesn't actually help many of them.
PIP/DLA can help these people to access support that they wouldn't otherwise afford. If you don't want to pay PIP/DLA, then provide adequate support for these people in the first place.

Its non means tested ,so it's neither an out of work or in work benefit ,there will.be claimant's that can and do work and claimant's that can't.

Give it up, won't you?

Arbeit macht frei

You know what's really surprising and shocking?
That there are people living with horrible, limiting health conditions that never go away, never get any better and often get progressively worse.

What’s also shocking is the wait times for medical diagnosis and treatment. If people had to wait for a definitive diagnosis, it would certainly reduce disability claims, while also decimating their quality of life.

PIP is not a long term sickness/out of work benefit.

PIP is an in work benefit.

My daughter works, PIP would help her immensely and support her to stay in work. However, after her last experience just asking for the claim form, she won’t apply again.

The system is deliberately designed that way to put people off claiming in the first place

My friend died while waiting to get pip. He was 37 years old. Your post is disgusting for trying to make out pip is a con and easy to get.

You can always tell an election is coming when the benefits bashing starts.

So many posts inciting hatred for vulnerable scapegoats in the hope of gaining votes from cruel policies.

The Tory party is beyond vile.

PIP is to do with what stops you functioning properly in daily life. By 'not diagnosed' I think you mean PIP isn't means tested. & that sticks in your meanspirited craw, begrudging people a few extra pounds that will help them through life. Youve not enough going on in your life so you're casting a beady eye. It doesn't even occur to me to wonder about PIP, and I dont personally know anyone who even mentions it.

I wish MN would delete these repetitive nasty ableist posts on sight. & why do some pp's feel they have to fully explain their circumstances? You dont have to justify to anyone here your reasons for receiving benefits, all you're doing is encouraging the crows to circle. Learn to be quiet sometimes. Apply that in real life too because MN makes me think there are plenty of grudgeful 'friends' around some of you and you shouldnt discuss your personal business with them at all

Have you seen what you have to not be able to do to get PIP? Mine has Asperger's and dyspraxia and wouldn't qualify. My brother had a degenerative illness that lead to him being bed bound and dying in his thirties. Despite there being no chance that he would ever improve in any way he still had to be assessed every year to be able to get benefits. Hope that makes you feel better OP.

Well said

PIP is not a long-term sickness benefit. It is an in-work benefit. Which is why the Tories want shot of it, but here you are lending them a helping hand.

Bloody hell, you sound like a Stalinist.
You'll be advocating purges next.
God help us.

It already is a thorough and rigorous process.
Anyway, PIP isn't an out-of-work benefit.

You have, over a number of posts, demonstrated views that are ablist - that is, actively discriminatory towards disabled people, and have even outlined who you consider to be deserving and undeserving disabled, which takes us right back to the days of the Poor Law. That isn't socialism by any measure.

My understanding is that it is like DLA based on care needs, not diagnosis.

Yabu to pretend to be shocked.

It is already a pretty brutal process.

How many more hoops would you like people with disabilities to jump through?

I always find it amazing how many people on mumsnet who are available to post during day times Multiple times on Multiple threads daily judging those who can’t physically work On a site where most workers are paying thousands and thousands of tax.

never adds up 😂

You know what's really surprising and shocking?
That there are people living with horrible, limiting health conditions that never go away, never get any better and often get progressively worse.
And that there are able-bodied people that are actually envious of those people because they get a bit of state help. So envious, in fact, that they won't rest until they find a reason why said help should be taken away.
You're fucking shameless.

There's a lot on MN who are hateful of disabled, sick and the poor and anyone claiming benefits.

There really aren't. It's just being out of work, and having nothing to do, they have a lot of time to post.

"Supports workers" - what about those who are, have always been, and will always be, too sick or disabled to work? Do they not count in your version of socialism?