To be completely shocked about someone I used to know

Would you please direct your anger towards someone else? I'm not a spokesperson for the left or the right.

If you are a Labour voter do you find the opinion of Starmer that some women have a penis credible?

Do you think that is grounded in reality?

Do you understand how some women have left the left?

I don't understand why you interpret me as 'worried' about them.

I responded to a post about them, on a chat thread, to say their policies were not credible.

So why are you so worried about them and people who want to vote for them?

At the moment I don't find the Labour party credible because of their stance on women's rights.

I really wish they'd listen to my views rather than imply that I'm stupid or a bigot.

My position is their policies are not credible. That is not belittling, it is just an opinion.

My view is their policies are deliberately simplistic and not grounded in the reality of how the world works.

I don't vote reform.

But that being said I wouldn't deride their politics. What I would do if I wanted to engage on a level with a reform voter would be to find the similarities in our views and have a conversation.

Belittling those with different political views is never going to win them over.

The comment you are referring to quoted no one.

I agree listening to others is important, I have for example listened carefully to Reform's policies which has helped me understand why they are not credible.

It was a response to something I had said.

If it was a general comment why did you quote me?

Either way listening to others rather that being righteous is the only way to solve political differences. That is my overriding point.

People can hold any views they like.

The policies of Reform are not credible. They are shallow policies which would not work in reality.

but this is ridiculous.

You don't think that intelligent people can hold different political views to you?

Do you realise it is you that seems ill-informed by coming out with this?

Exactly that. Some of their policies are straight from fairy land. Exempting all frontline healthcare workers from basic rate income tax? Seriously? It’s pure fantasy.

You're pretty hyperbolic yourself.

You've chosen to respond personally to a general comment. If you yourself are confident, my comment doesn't apply to you. I was talking about people who feel 'patronised'.

Quite. Either Mumsnet users have become markedly less intelligent recently or we have been invaded by some reform campaigners.

I miss the days when most users were well informed. No one intelligent gives any credence to a party like reform.

This thread is hysterical! Do posters not know that there is such a thing as fascism? Not as an insult but as an actually political system with specific forms and policy goals? Do you not remember Oswald Mosely, if you can’t remember Mussolini and Hitler?

Equally: there are political groups on both ends of the spectrum with goals to overcome and eliminate democracy and the rights that democracies generally require for citizens such as free speech, freedom of association, rights for children, women, minorities, and the right to vote itself?

In a functioning democracy with two or more parties that are oriented around democratic principles party membership may be understood as somewhat anodyne, like one’s choice of sports team or favorite food.

But outlier parties, parties of the far left or far right, generally have the goal of using democracy and the vote to get into power and then to change the rules so that their enemies ( however defined) can no longer compete successfully, share power, join in the government, or protect their citizen/members. So yes, as I pointed out upthread, there are parties whose goal it is to replace democracy eith fascism.

In the US the far right fringe outside and of the Republican party explicitly calls for shrinking the power of the electorate by eliminating problematic voters (women, minorities, non property owners, naturalized immigrants and the children of immigrants). They EXPLICITLY call for an end to democracy in the form of one person one vote.

Parties have platforms and policies that they strive to put into play. Government levies taxes, disburses taxes, wages war and protects or doesn’t protect citizens. These all result in choices and policies with enormous impact and therfore moral significance. The choice of which party to belong to is a moral choice.

You bet I judge someone who belongs to a party that is racist, corrupt, fascist, jingoistic, war mongering, or authoritarian. I would judge some nice lady on the PTA if she were voting for the cannabalism party too. I would kind of have to assume she wants to legalize cannibalism and potentially eat me, wouldn’t I?

Quite. Either Mumsnet users have become markedly less intelligent recently or we have been invaded by some reform campaigners.

I miss the days when most users were well informed. No one intelligent gives any credence to a party like reform.

As I said, If people point out the policies won't work, they get accused of being superior.

I'm sorry if you feel patronised but their policy platform is mostly nonsense.

Yes of course the cultures are different. That’s rather the point. I am s former anthropologist so I hang out here precisely because culture is my jam and Im interested in English/british culture and politics (writ large to include the anti-politics cult of just having “reasonable” opinions without having to be responsible for actual policy execution).

I'll hazard a guess that you are from the US?

it's ridiculous that you can suggest that you understand the state of UK politics from books. As ridiculous as a person from the UK stating we understand what is going on in the US. We share a language but our cultures are vastly different.

This is actually hilarious.

The people with the chips on their shoulders are those who are so righteous they won't listen to the views of others.

I'm utterly confident in my own opinions. I'm not permanently offended. I just find the tribalism of party politics divisive and would like to have a sensible conversation without hyperbole.

A big part of the reason people are broke is because of house/rent prices because of supply and demand of the sheer amount of people moving here. But oh no the woman described in the op is evil for wanting to vote a party that says it'll cut down immigration 🤔

Yes: i am not from the UK as you can tell from my spelling. I usually state that where relevant. That doesn’t mean Im not quite conversant with British history and politics.

Malcom X wasn’t so keen on the liberal white man. In fact he told people to beware of them .