AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

@ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine
She didn’t qualify for PIP so it’s irrelevant what her costs are.

My dp is also disabled and does not qualify for PIP. Extra costs are significant and mostly transport related but add in taking an effective demotion at work to be able to continue.

The idea that PIP is to cover the extra costs of being disabled makes no sense. Many people are disabled but don’t meet the threshold for PIP and have to meet these extra costs themselves.

Seriously?! I work, my husband actually earns quite a lot, but without my PIP we would not be able to afford the vehicle needed to transport my wheelchair, without which I would be unable to work. I can either claim PIP while in work, or I can have it taken away, be unable to work as a result, end up on incapacity benefit, which would presumably mean I would be entitled to PIP again, so could get a motability vehicle again, which would then mean I could go back to work, which would then mean I lost my PIP again, and so the cycle would continue. How much do you earn that means you don't need PIP? Or are the costs relating to your disability not that high? If you're housebound a lot of the time could having some form of wheelchair/scooter and a WAV not change that? I get the top rate of both categories for PIP, so about £600 a month, and while it does make a decent dent in my disability related expenses, it doesn't cover it. My DH pays more than enough tax to cover it. I don't feel in the least bit guilty about claiming it. My disability has cost my tens of thousands over the years, probably more.

Very well said @PocketSand. Of course anxiety & depression increased post Covid, especially amongst the young who'd had their education back disrupted & also realised that the 'grown ups' were making it all up as they went along. I will also never forget the DNR Govt rule for Autistic people. They withdrew that latet but it was there for some time. Not too far from a 'useless eaters' label.

So you are citing your anecdotal experience, pardon me for not accepting that. You appear to have zero basis for the claim too many people are claiming except just that you say so.

The TV licence comparison is ridiculous as that is a simple binary - people either have a licence or they don't; it's an insult to compare people claiming benefits as a result of mental health issues to that.

If the government were actually remotely serious about helping more disabled people into work then the civil service wouldn’t have had arbitrary “x days in the office” brought back in. There would have been some nuance in which departments need to be in more and which are actually ideal for home working more.

They also would be discouraging big companies who are big donors (looking at you JCB) from scrapping all home working regardless of effectiveness.

This is also similar for ESA in terms of appeals.

I’d also like clear cut numbers - we’re often told “X number of people were found fit to work” but there’s never any follow up of “oh, but then X number were actually found not to be”.

Also the ‘error and fraud’ percentage should be split. I’d like to know how much of it is error and how much is fraud. My assumption is that the error is the higher part as I’m very sure if fraud figures had increased we’d hear about that!

National security which has had to be ramped up due to political meddling in national affairs you mean? Trotting into countries and contributing to destabilisation that already exists? Making the UK a bigger target than ever for extremists you mean? That national security? To a point where conscription is being bandied about (ridiculously of course) as a solution.

Everything is connected in a vast global chaos - the welfare budget is really the least of this country's problems, and the people dependent on it in any way are largely so due to necessity and decades of managed economic decline.

Numbers of billionaires in this country have tripled since Covid. I wonder how and why that is.

I think it’s easy for governments to say disability benefits are too expensive without being transparent about how much of that money is going on administration. When New Labour introduced Atos costs increased by 300% now SERCO have a £350 million contract with the DWP. Private companies are benefiting in a system designed to make it difficult to claim benefits and keep them. They can do this because a lot of people are either naive in who needs that benefits and the likelihood they might need them too. Or, they don’t care about supporting vulnerable people.

You mean national security? Yes what a waste of money, especially now

That is an excellent point. How much of the PIP budget is actually money paid to claimants versus the costs of crap administration?

You asked if I'd reviewed every case.

Not quite sure what your issue is with what I've said? Ive based it on my factual experiences, and, tbh, no one needs to review every case to know there are people who are claiming to have depression, anxiety etc. when it's just that they're having normal daily shit to contend with. I think they are the ones a lot of people are raising eyebrows over but they lump them in with those who are genuinely struggling.

It's a bit like saying there are far too many people who don't pay their TV licence when they should. I've not reviewed every case, I don't need to to know that statement is true, its obvious (not that I have a problem with people not paying!).

They could save an absolute fortune on the PIP bill if they just took the time to get the decisions correct in the first place, or at second look.

The cost of appeals is phenomenal. The place here that does them has 15 rooms, each with a lawyer and doctor (independent so not cheap) and some have a welfare rights person as well. They do multiple appeals a day and are so busy it takes around 12 months to get seen.

My DD was called the morning of her appeal and told the panel had awarded her after reading the pack.

When I went as support for someone else I was in the waiting room for 4 hours all in (I didn’t go into the room with them) and I literally saw two people leave having not won. The figures of people winning at appeal are staggering, and they are not all people who suddenly break out amazing medical evidence at last minute. It’s such a waste of money, and such a nightmare for the claimants involved.

and for batshit schemes to not send people to Rwanda

Funny how there are always magic money tree forests for banking bail outs, funding the arms trade, and a host of consultations leading to diddly squat in tangible terms though, isn't it?

DH claimed PIP when he got his cancer diagnosis, for a few months it enabled him to continue to work. It helped pay, among other things, for the days he needed off work for chemo as his company only paid SSP, it helped with the miles backwards and forwards to hospital for chemo/scans/appointments, it helped cover the costs of keeping the house warmer than we'd previously needed it. It helped cover the hidden costs of illness/disability. Without it he would've needed to stop work and go onto out of employment benefits and how would that help an already broken system?

I wouldn’t hold my breath if you expect the majority to the U.K. to step up to protect people with disabilities or health issues who are reliant on benefits. Most people have absolutely no understanding of how the system works, and those who claim it’s unsustainable know even less. People sat back and said nothing about the 2012 Welfare Reforms which resulted in increased cost in administration and the awful consequences of those reforms. It introduced an element of cruelty that plenty of voters still have an appetite for.

It’s very upsetting dealing with vulnerable people who are already being put under stress when going through the process, face financial hardship when they have to go through the tribunal process. It’s even more awful when you’re dealing with someone who suddenly becomes very unwell and they think because they have worked they will be looked after. It’s always a terrible shock to them.

No, and I never said you did - you said far too many. How can you know which cases are valid and which are not?

I genuinely don't understand what you are on about. Could you elaborate?

The consultation also mentions the reason for the uptick in claims is the pandemic - they refer a lot to pre and post pandemic claims. Particularly for anxiety and depression. No shit Sherlock.

Should the disabled (I'm thinking a throwing protective arms) pay for the consequences of government choices that were nothing to do with them (DNR if you are autistic) but just so happened to achieve a huge wealth and power transfer in the favour of the already rich?

Huh? There are people who only work because they have pip

I know it’s not an out of work benefit. I’m saying that the money available needs to be focused on those who genuinely can’t work, the severely disabled.

Only skim read the consultation but it appears that after a review in 2016 which criticised PIP assessment for over emphasis on aids and appliances the government didn't make changes it agreed with to shift this emphasis.

It recognises that PIP is not generally spent on aids and appliances but that direct payment pays non direct costs of disability (increased utility, transport, food, clothing, housing etc) whether in work or not and that stopping direct payment would impact non-paid carers who would no longer qualify to receive carers allowance.

Then it merrily skips on to proposed reforms - a catalogue of approved aids and appliances; a voucher scheme to buy approved aids and appliances; a receipt scheme to refund the cost of approved aids and appliances.

But wait. Aids and appliances need only be bought once (and the NHS should supply) so no direct payment is needed.

People with depression and anxiety who have maliciously claimed (let's ignore the claiming criteria for how long impairment has been present and is expected by medical professionals to continue) don't need aids and appliances.

When you think about it, nobody really needs PIP for aids and appliances. Because support is really somebody else's problem. So nobody really needs PIP.

WTF.

I don’t think it’s that black and white. YABU to tell people how they should vote. I’m sure they can work it out for themselves.

YES IT HAS
Have you even clicked on the links I've posted? I assume not!