AIBU to hope that able bodied people will support disabled people against the tory attack on PIP?

It might not be their choice. Their spouse might have moved ages away with their children so to collect them means a 6 hour round trip and £££ on fuel every weekend (I know a few in this position). They may have to use a launderette because they live in a tiny flat and have no space to dry laundry without causing damp (also know somebody in this position). And most people have to pay to travel to regular or routine hospital appointments (I do).

Exactly they didn't cope but they were more than likely shamed or it was brushed under the carpet as oh that's just your father's "way" ! I don't think we need to rush back to that.

You’ve totally missed the point. Spending money on other things is their CHOICE. I miss out on nice clothes, holidays, meals out etc etc etc to the tune of £500 BECAUSE I AM DISABLED. So, effectively, my work has less value to me than their work has to them. That is what is unfair.

For the love of Brian, PIP IS NOT AN OUT-OF-WORK BENEFIT!
We all get it! The issue is that when it comes to MH issues, it is directly related to work or not work.

Everybody claims that it's not easy to get PIP for mental health. A person in a wheelchair or severe mobility issues can indeed work with some adaptations.

A person with very severe anxiety or depression, likely to take very strong and debilitating drugs are very unlikely to ever get a job until they get better. Any job demand a level of concentration that most sufferers of severe MH can't sustain for more than a few hours if not minutes at a random time.

So yes, it's important to focus on MH for many reasons:

• the reason above, ie. Most likely not to and be able to work.
• the quickest, significantly growing number of claimant's, currently 38%.
• the largest group affected is young people.
• every scientific research has evidenced that the longer anxiety and depression is left untreated, the harder it becomes to rehabilitate. It's not all about access services. There are so many self help support available via charity and online. It's about motivation, self-belief, an innate ability to push yourself against one's will, and trust that one can get better.
• as mentioned, for those who have managed to overcome the worse of a crisis, work is a very good mean to continue to progress to through recovery.

The review of PIP is not all about saving money.

If it were indeed so easy to just say you have eg autism or ADHD and get all the benefits, why on Earth would hundreds of thousands of people even bother to join the waiting list for assessment?
Or perhaps disability benefits are actually not that easy to get without evidence, and people are waiting on the list so they have the evidence they need to claim.

The more the govt bangs on about PIP, the more they bring it to the attention of people who are struggling with mobility and daily living, who then realise they too deserve help.

The simplest thing Govt could do is disincentivise the assessment companies from making erroneous decisions. Perhaps they could fine assessors 120% of their fee for each decision that is ultimately overturned.

Is there actually any hard evidence that employers are offering disabled people appropriate and accessible work, which they are refusing to do?

@LakieLady yes because there are so many people clamouring to get on to waiting lists now. Surely it isn’t surprising that with requests for autism assessments having increased fivefold since 2019, the waiting times will be longer? There are 170,000 people on the waiting lists. There’s only so much the NHS can reasonably do

The wait for EMDR for PTSD in my county appears to be in the region of 3 years, if not more. The wait for counselling is over 3 years. The wait for an autism assessment for adults is now over 2.5 years (god knows what it is for children, friend's son waited 6.5 years). There doesn't appear to be any CBT going on anywhere.

Meanwhile, funding for projects that support people with MH problems in the community has been cut to the point that the support they deliver no longer meets people's needs. The mental health drop ins are no longer drop ins, membership is now time limited and you have to commit to doing particular activities, so people are becoming more isolated and have a lot less contact with MH professionals.

Expecting people to get back to work, or to manage on less money, while simultaneously removing one of the things that helped their mental health to improve is beyond cruel.

Not inheriting a house isn't a protected characteristic though.
Either we believe as a society that it's a good idea to try and combat some of the inaccessibility inherent in our society by giving disabled people the means to circumvent some of it, or we don't.
If buses were every two minutes everywhere and had enough wheelchair spaces that I'd be almost guaranteed to get on the first one that came, I wouldn't need money for taxis.

And for some it's not just the money but the gateway to other things - bus pass, blue badge, railcard, carers tickets, carers allowance, motability vehicle tax discount, etc

They could be spending £500 on other things. It’s a bit like saying why should I have to pay expensive rent when some people inherited a house for free? Life is inherently unfair. Maybe they have additional costs you have no idea about.

Why should PIP be means tested??? I spend about £500 a month to be able to work. Why should my able bodied colleague have £500 more disposable income than me, just because they’re lucky enough to not be disabled?? Means testing PIP would just create a massive disincentive to work fur disabled people. Only someone with absolutely no understanding of the costs if disability would suggest such a thing.

By far the most senseless part of PIP is the motability scheme imo. Being disabled in many cases, even though qualifying for the highest rate, doesn't mean you need a brand new (unadapted) car. It's a total unnecessary waste in lots of cases.

But it's also used for taxis for those who can't drive or use public transport (or who live somewhere where there is little or no public transport) or to pay for a carer to accompany them when they use public transport, if they can't do that alone.

This. It's putting people with disabling health conditions in double jeopardy.

And at the same time, waiting lists for treatment and surgery are getting longer and longer, and community mental health services have been cut to the bone.

You do get PIP for anxiety, and the reason hardly anyone is getting therapy is because the waiting lists are astronomical now compared to even 10 years ago. They’re never going to meet the insane level of demand we have now, I don’t think it’s even possible

Yes but that was the minority. The vast majority of 80 and 90 somethings I knew growing up were actually quite calm, level headed, optimistic people. They certainly weren’t shaking wrecks. I think having no choice but to get on with things helped in all but the worst cases.

That isn’t happening now. You don’t get pip just for anxiety and hardly anybody is getting access to the therapy they need. Children and adults.

Post WW2 I imagine half the population had some form of anxiety or major PTSD but it simply wasn’t an option for half the population to give up work for years and have therapy. I do wonder why they seemed to cope and we simply can’t.

Many people did not cope though, and suffered terribly. Grown men whimpering, and shaking after hearing an unexpected loud noise, hardly sounds like coping.

As Pp said the issue is many treat it as a final diagnosis, like now they’ve been diagnosed as having anxiety etc that’s it then; they’re written off and can never work again. Also the sheer numbers - 5 million people could all have very compelling stories but we cant have 5 million people out of work full stop.

Post WW2 I imagine half the population had some form of anxiety or major PTSD but it simply wasn’t an option for half the population to give up work for years and have therapy. I do wonder why they seemed to cope and we simply can’t.

You have just summed it up perfectly as far as I am concerned, why the voucher scheme will just not work in the main@CrocusSnowdrop . Just having to spend so much time on keeping receipts, and statements will be an admin nightmare for most people suffering from ill health. Where will people get the money from to pay for what they need, to be able to claim back, in the first place? Who on earth thinks up these ridiculous ideas. Is it not enough to be trying to cope with whatever illness, is ailing a person, without adding a more unnecessary load on top?

Oh, and I can't get a part time job on top of my studies, cos guess what, I'm too disabled to do both

This thread is like banging my head against a brick wall.
"work helped my/ my dog's cousin's mental health so everyone with a mental illness is capable of work"
"people on PIP should be encouraged back to work"
For the love of Brian, PIP IS NOT AN OUT-OF-WORK BENEFIT!

I'm on PIP and currently studying full time. I'm about to list some ways I spend it, although I'm not sure why as I'm sure nobody's going to take any bloody notice. Maybe the variety of its uses will explain why vouchers or catalogues or one-off grants or bloody having to keep the receipts and claim it back (what money was I supposed to have to pay for stuff in the first place?!) will not work.

• Taxis to get to hospital appointments. Obviously more hospital appointments than healthy people, and I can't get the bus in the rush hour because there's no space for the wheelchair. And I currently live in the city centre, living rurally means no buses and I can't legally drive.
• Emergency fund for if my wheelchair breaks, I put a little in every month, so that I can pay for the repairs and the weeks of taxis to get to classes or to rent a wheelchair.
• Extra heating because I'm in bed a lot to study, can't go and work in the library.
• Laundry service. I need clean clothes.
• Cleaning is currently included in my rent, but as soon as it isn't, I'll have to pay extra.
• Expensive pre-prepared vegetables and fruit
• Ready meals or takeaways when I run out of meals to heat up prepared by family members
• Extra electricity to charge my wheelchair
• Every month there's something to manage my disabilities that needs to be bought or replaced. Compression socks, cushions, ear defenders, cooking aids, additional wheelchair bits, adaptive kettle, weighted blanket, adaptive coat and so on and so forth. "Adaptive" anything is always more expensive than the non-adaptive version.
• Mistakes I make with bills and subscriptions due to my disabilities.
• Private therapy for a long time

I'm sure there's loads of other stuff I've forgotten about. If I had to individually "justify" each purchase I would have an unmanageable amount of admin to do. I already spend a ridiculous amount of time each week on disability admin, and need help with that. Either I wouldn't have the things I need, or me and my family members wouldn't have a life due to spending all our time applying for grants and saving up receipts.
Some of that list includes things that non-disabled people consider to be luxuries, and therefore don't think I should be allowed to spend "taxpayers' money" on them. What these people don't seem to understand is that I'm disabled, so things like a cleaning or laundry service, takeaways, or taxis, are not luxuries but necessities. I need to have clean clothes and not live in squalor. I was a good cook and would love to be able to cook for myself. I'd love to be allowed to learn to drive - imagine the freedom! But I can't, and because the services I need are priced as luxuries, life is bloody expensive.

Some folk, and notice I do say some, with mental health issues definitely benefit from getting back 'out and about'. For some people voluntary work may be a route back into paid work (part or full time). It won't always be an easy journey, going from a safe(r) space, but, with the right support and encouragement and at the right time, it can actually be the key to getting some sense of normality again. The problem is that we currently lack the resources and support to allow the transition to happen, and to judge what is an appropriate time (if any) to start the process.

pussycat I am very aware that we all are different, but it helped me. My life was beyond chaotic and everything felt pointless.

the sense that I did something useful and that I was needed helped me more than I can say.

I remember a point in the care facility when one of the residents smiled at me. This was so long ago but I still remember that I was amazed that I had made someone’s life better. It kind of showed me that I had value as a person if that makes sense? It sounds like such a small thing but I felt so useless, I was so depressed and the days were blurred into each other. To suddenly have achieved something measurable every day was huge. And then to have made another persons life better was a gift.

I still like to make people smile in my work (asking about their loved ones, making a small, inoffensive joke). I never made the connection before but maybe this is why?

"Some mental health conditions"

Fixed that for you.

Bibnle636, you are absolutely right, work helps a lot with mental health issues.