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Why is the teacher from Batley still in hiding if we do not have a problem with Islamic extremism in this country.

31 replies

RespectAndTolerance · 29/04/2024 18:55

As another poster noted on the recent thread on ‘Islamophobia’, we have a democratic society where no one is exempt from criticism, yet some militant groups are riling up intolerance which is incompatible with British values.

These values and our culture have inspired many people of all religions to chose Britain as their home. AIBU to think we should be protecting these?

This article by Kenan Malik explains it much more eloquently. amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/31/batley-school-what-teacher-in-hiding-can-tell-us-about-our-failure-to-tackle-intolerance

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Crispsandwichrock · 30/04/2024 10:44

The response to being offended should never be to threaten to kill someone (or carry it out, obviously).
We certainly have executed people for blasphemy in the past, but thankfully have moved beyond this. Vigilantes imposing their own form of justice is never ok.

frankentall · 30/04/2024 10:37

At least Mary Whitehouse and her pals didn't threaten to kill people they thought were being blasphemous.

frankentall · 30/04/2024 10:35

CantDealwithChristmas · 30/04/2024 10:27

Yep, the famous(ly bad) poem by James Kirkup. That was a private prospecution though. You wouldn't get police enforcing blasphemy laws and they wouldn't have done for centuries. That is very different from the situation in theocracies such as Iran for example.

My point was that we did have blasphemy laws and they were enforced (albeit as I said by private prosecution) as recently as 1977, contrary to the claim made by the other poster. I wasn't making any claim about "theocracies such as Iran for example" so that's not relevant.

baileys6904 · 30/04/2024 10:34

I think different areas of the country have their own experiences and challenges, and it's very hard and perhaps dangerous to generalise, as with every topic.

Without acknowledging the warranted variation, it will always be a topic of divisiveness and concern, and indeed damaging to the British community as a whole, no matter what colour, religion etc

AceOfCups · 30/04/2024 10:33

Of course people don't have the right not to be offended. But that isn't the same thing as showing or speaking material that you know is going to offend people very deeply, at a level that strikes at their cultural and spiritual self.

being confronted with things that strike at your cultural and spiritual self is a given if you live in a pluralistic society, which modern Britain is.

CantDealwithChristmas · 30/04/2024 10:27

frankentall · 30/04/2024 10:19

I think part of the problem is that we've never really had blasphemy laws in the UK. We did have laws against heresy but they've not been enforced since, I dunno, the time of James I?
Mary Whitehouse prosecuted Gay News in 1977 for blasphemous libel. The magazine was fined and the editor received a 9 month suspended prison sentence for publishing a poem Whitehouse felt was blasphemous.

Yep, the famous(ly bad) poem by James Kirkup. That was a private prospecution though. You wouldn't get police enforcing blasphemy laws and they wouldn't have done for centuries. That is very different from the situation in theocracies such as Iran for example.

CantDealwithChristmas · 30/04/2024 10:25

Grumm · 30/04/2024 10:20

I don’t agree with this at all. I don’t think anyone has the right not to be offended, much less to threaten the life and family of a teacher.

Of course people don't have the right not to be offended. But that isn't the same thing as showing or speaking material that you know is going to offend people very deeply, at a level that strikes at their cultural and spiritual self.

For example if I have a customer at work who is on the large side and I had to use a descriptor (when directing a colleague towards them for example) I would say "the large gentleman" or something similar. I wouldn't say "the guy with the massive pot belly".

Grumm · 30/04/2024 10:20

CantDealwithChristmas · 30/04/2024 09:58

I don't know if he really still needs to be in hiding,

Eeesh, as a woman who escaped DV by going 'into hiding', your words make my uncomfortable. trust me no one goes 'into hiding' and definitely doesn't stay there unless they know that they really, really need to. It's a horrible way to live. You don't just do it for shits n giggles, or to get attention, you know?

On the Batley school incident in general, I feel the teacher could have been more circumspect in what he showed the class. We all know by now that images of the Prophet should not be shown as they are deemed offensive, and certainly that fact should be known in an educational environment.

I do also feel that the teacher recieved insufficient support from the school, the board of governors, and his Union all of whom should have spoken up more loudly on his behalf.

I think part of the problem is that we've never really had blasphemy laws in the UK. We did have laws against heresy but they've not been enforced since, I dunno, the time of James I? Plus, we've got used to seeing Christian imagery everywhere, usually divorced from its religious context and often in the context of comedy, satire or pop music. We're more likely to see sexualised crucifixion imagery in a Sam Smith video than we are in its original religious context these days. So, we've perhaps become desensitised to the fact that religious imagery has deep meaning and there are major taboos and sensitivities for many people.

I don’t agree with this at all. I don’t think anyone has the right not to be offended, much less to threaten the life and family of a teacher.

frankentall · 30/04/2024 10:19

I think part of the problem is that we've never really had blasphemy laws in the UK. We did have laws against heresy but they've not been enforced since, I dunno, the time of James I?
Mary Whitehouse prosecuted Gay News in 1977 for blasphemous libel. The magazine was fined and the editor received a 9 month suspended prison sentence for publishing a poem Whitehouse felt was blasphemous.

Underthinker · 30/04/2024 10:14

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 10:06

Just to add, it is no coincidence IMHO that there are a plethora of anti-muslim threads popping during an election week.

Khan is going to win, regardless.

Have you read the Observer piece? It's not really anti-muslim. I've found Kenan Malik to be pretty reasonable and balanced from what I've read from him.

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 10:06

Just to add, it is no coincidence IMHO that there are a plethora of anti-muslim threads popping during an election week.

Khan is going to win, regardless.

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 10:00

AlisonDonut · 30/04/2024 09:29

Quick question.

Is it better to threaten to kill someone or 'bash' the ideology that says that threatening to kill someone for doing something perfectly legal is perhaps a bit extreme?

Millions of Muslims in the UK practice their religion peacefully. There is a miniscule percentage who kill or threaten to kill people. Same as in any walk of life in the UK.

CantDealwithChristmas · 30/04/2024 09:58

Bumblebeeinatree · 30/04/2024 09:24

I don't know if he really still needs to be in hiding, but I understand that it only takes one nut to kill someone or hurt their wife and children. Some quotes from (Muslim) people in the area say he would be safe and he's missed, but I wouldn't risk it. And if they have established a new life under a new name I wouldn't want another upheaval to go back.

I don't know if he really still needs to be in hiding,

Eeesh, as a woman who escaped DV by going 'into hiding', your words make my uncomfortable. trust me no one goes 'into hiding' and definitely doesn't stay there unless they know that they really, really need to. It's a horrible way to live. You don't just do it for shits n giggles, or to get attention, you know?

On the Batley school incident in general, I feel the teacher could have been more circumspect in what he showed the class. We all know by now that images of the Prophet should not be shown as they are deemed offensive, and certainly that fact should be known in an educational environment.

I do also feel that the teacher recieved insufficient support from the school, the board of governors, and his Union all of whom should have spoken up more loudly on his behalf.

I think part of the problem is that we've never really had blasphemy laws in the UK. We did have laws against heresy but they've not been enforced since, I dunno, the time of James I? Plus, we've got used to seeing Christian imagery everywhere, usually divorced from its religious context and often in the context of comedy, satire or pop music. We're more likely to see sexualised crucifixion imagery in a Sam Smith video than we are in its original religious context these days. So, we've perhaps become desensitised to the fact that religious imagery has deep meaning and there are major taboos and sensitivities for many people.

AceOfCups · 30/04/2024 09:52

It’s a travesty that it even got to the point that the teacher and his family had to go hiding.

Completely unacceptable in a Liberal Democracy. I feel very strongly that those who would prefer to live in a society that has blasphemy laws should seek a country that reflects these values. Modern UK is a pluralistic society and tolerance must go both ways.

(and before someone accuses me of Islamophobia I will mention that I am married to a Muslim and any children we have will be brought up Muslim)

LemonTT · 30/04/2024 09:47

I don’t think anyone has claimed there isn’t an issue with extremists in this country. We have a number of varieties.

We have the hardy perennial sectarian factions in NI and parts of Scotland. Many a person who crossed their path end up in hiding, dead or disappeared.

We have right wing extremism and people have been killed by them, including an MP and people are in hiding from them too.

We have other religions with extremists elements and people go into hiding from them.

Nobody is in denial about it. There is government strategy called Prevent aimed at stopping it and our security forces have teams of people monitoring individuals and taking action.

ACynicalDad · 30/04/2024 09:41

It's more convenient to sweep this under the carpet and let his life be ruined than to confront this. Those threatening him should feel the strength of the law, but sadly the authorities do nothing. Not even the local MP, who needs votes from the community. Awful.

Huldrafolk · 30/04/2024 09:37

AlisonDonut · 30/04/2024 09:01

This is the crux of any issue these days.

'You linked to the wrong source'
'You think X [that wasn't ever actually mentioned]'
'Maybe do some research'

Sigh. Credible sources are important. The OP has linked to a website concerned with the ‘Christian soul’ of Western civilisation being ‘under siege’. And a cursory amount of reading about Theo Van Gogh would place his appalling murder in its fuller context.

AlisonDonut · 30/04/2024 09:29

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 09:14

Another day, another Muslim bashing thread. They seem to be very popular this week. Wonder why? 🧐

Quick question.

Is it better to threaten to kill someone or 'bash' the ideology that says that threatening to kill someone for doing something perfectly legal is perhaps a bit extreme?

AstralSpace · 30/04/2024 09:26

Let's list the crimes of every culture, religion and race, shall we?
You'll find extremism, violence, rape, abuse in every single culture and religion.

This doesn't mean we don't tackle it but the reasons why people do this are complex and unique to the perpetrators.

Bumblebeeinatree · 30/04/2024 09:24

RespectAndTolerance · 29/04/2024 18:55

As another poster noted on the recent thread on ‘Islamophobia’, we have a democratic society where no one is exempt from criticism, yet some militant groups are riling up intolerance which is incompatible with British values.

These values and our culture have inspired many people of all religions to chose Britain as their home. AIBU to think we should be protecting these?

This article by Kenan Malik explains it much more eloquently. amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/31/batley-school-what-teacher-in-hiding-can-tell-us-about-our-failure-to-tackle-intolerance

I don't know if he really still needs to be in hiding, but I understand that it only takes one nut to kill someone or hurt their wife and children. Some quotes from (Muslim) people in the area say he would be safe and he's missed, but I wouldn't risk it. And if they have established a new life under a new name I wouldn't want another upheaval to go back.

Huldrafolk · 30/04/2024 09:19

RespectAndTolerance · 30/04/2024 09:11

https://www.restorationbulletin.com/p/western-women-and-islam?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

I do apologise - this is the correct link

I don’t suggest Van Gogh was murdered for his feminism. He was murdered by an Islamic terrorist and Hirsi Ali’s life was threatened.

Yes, I could see the article. I could also see the other articles on the site, which says it’s about ‘Western Civilisation and its Christian Soul’. Which is apparently ‘under siege’.

HappierTimesAhead · 30/04/2024 09:19

Sexual abuse is prevelant in almost every part of society. White, non-Muslim men rape women and children in Britain every day. Grooming gangs should always be sort out and imprisoned regardless of the ethnicity, religion or otherwise of the perpetrators. Looking at cultural norms and how these influence behaviour is really important but it's also important we don't demonise a whole group of people.

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 09:16

Oh, and welcome to MN.🙄

Hoppinggreen · 30/04/2024 09:15

Huldrafolk · 30/04/2024 08:51

That’s pretty disingenuous, OP. You link to an anti-immigration website, and you appear to think Theo Van Gogh was murdered for his feminism? Maybe do some more reading.

And change your username

IClaudine · 30/04/2024 09:14

Another day, another Muslim bashing thread. They seem to be very popular this week. Wonder why? 🧐

Swipe left for the next trending thread