To think Taylor Swift is overrated?

Her music is written by an army of people, so with all likelihood what we hear is mostly written by Max Martin, Shellback and the Fairbrass brothers.

It really, really isn't. That's just simply a false statement, easily checked.

Her voice - well, in my opinion her voice is utterly gorgeous and affecting. She may not have some of the technical fripperies of a Beyonce or whoever; she tends not to belt or use a load of vibrato, etc but she has a fantastic range and beautiful clarity / articulation. Her breath control is something else. Her voice suits the music she writes.

And as for making a spurious comparison with Mark bloody Knopfler - wtf? It's almost as funny as the poster on another recent thread who got their knickers in a twist about TS not having written Bohemian Rhapsody.

I'm interested as to why you revived this thread to slag off an artist that you hold in contempt - and clearly know fuck all about anyway. Still, you're not the first, and I don't expect you'll be the last to spend their precious time whining online about a woman who has the bare-faced audacity to... release popular music that doesn't float your personal boat.

Mark Knopfler may well have done all of those things. It doesn't make his songs any less dreary. Technique isn't everything.
It's all about the songs.
You can play Neil Young's entire catalogue with about seven chords, but I'd rather listen to him any day.

Taylor Swift isn't talented at playing any instrument,

in your opinion

neither possess a particularly impressive voice,

in your opinion

so what are we left with? Her songwriting skills? Neither that I am afraid.

In your opinion. And there are literally millions of people around the world who disagree with you.

Her music is written by an army of people, so with all likelihood what we hear is mostly written by Max Martin, Shellback and the Fairbrass brothers..

Taylor Swift has written 243 songs across 11 albums, of which 21 (that’s fewer than 1 in 10) credit Max Martin and/or Shellback as a co-writer. None of which have been on her last four albums.

The Fairbrass brothers are credited as co-writers on Look What You Made Me Do for no reason other than the chorus being similar to I’m Too Sexy.

Her main collaborators on her last four albums have been Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner, with the occasional guest artist on one or two tracks. Not exactly an army…

So- once again- you’re talking utter crap.

that time again when it feels suitable to point out that her 3rd album was entirely self written with no collaborators as by only 19 she was already fed-up with the presumptions and accusations that she wasn't responsible for much of the songwriting.

Isn’t her music latterly renowned for being written by her and her two producers? As distinct from the majority of pop music which is churned out?

I think some of her older albums had songs ‘manufactured’ in this way, but I think her rise has come more on the back of her writing herself.

I’m still not saying that she’s particularly talented at song writing (although she is good at it), but I think she should get credit for her contribution.

This. She’s a broadly appealing pop artist which on its own may make her seem overrated.

But she is an incredible business woman that has made her brand about way more than the music and her and her team are some of the greatest talents in marketing. I honestly don’t think her business acumen can be applauded enough.

It’s that time of the week folks 😂

You may not like the Dire Straits, that's fine, but that's not the point.

Mark Knopfler basically re-invented how to play guitar, as his picking technique just didn't exist before they way he did it.
He brought something new to the world of music, which has then been copied by thousands of guitarists all over the world and millions of people loved that because of his talent, not because of anything else. That is the point.

Taylor Swift isn't talented at playing any instrument, neither possess a particularly impressive voice, so what are we left with? Her songwriting skills? Neither that I am afraid.
Her music is written by an army of people, so with all likelihood what we hear is mostly written by Max Martin, Shellback and the Fairbrass brothers.. these are the same exact people that write the vast majority of the pop music which is in the top chart since the early 2000s, and which are performed by the "idols" people recognize. Max Martin and his aids have cracked the code on how to write pop music and they have been doing time and again for the last 25/30 years now... but it's always the same music, just with minor differences.

There is no innovation in harmony, melody or lyrics in anything she does.. there is a lot of terrific talent in commanding a presence on the stage, and running a massive musical business. She's exceptional, just not at music, but at entertainment, showmanship and business.

I don't care how great a guitar player Mark Knopfler is/was....Dire Straits were one of the dullest bands there ever was. You couldn't escape that bloody Brothers In Arms album in the 80s. Instant Mogadon.

I'm not a fan of her music but I like her. I think she deserves her success and is mostly a great role model for girls.

Recently it's been found out she's been using tactics to supress other female artists. So I don't know she has much business singing about misogy and sexism.

You’re talking utter crap.

Her music is definitely not targeted at teenagers. In one of the first lines in the first song of her new album she calls herself a functioning alcoholic. She sings about sex. She sings about death. She sings about miscarriage. She sings about misogyny and patriarchy and sexism. Definitely not lightweight teeny bopper fare. But that’s a criticism frequently levelled at her by people with only a very superficial awareness of her discography who caught a verse of Shake It Off on the radio ten years ago and figured that was all she had.

And yes there is an appetite for not outrageously talented but beautiful people in the popular music realm, as there has always been… but that doesn’t mean that talented but ungorgeous people never get through. One of the biggest male stars today is an average looking ginger bloke from Ipswich who makes a point of his shows being just him and his guitar on stage. One of the biggest female stars is a young woman who makes a point of wearing baggy clothes and no make up, with crazy dyed hair.

She can play guitar and piano... her guitar skills are intermediate, and the piano is really basic. Her success is clearly not due to her technical skills as an instrumentalist. Similar she isn't known for her exceptional singing skills, she's an average singer, although she sings better than she plays guitar and piano.

You say that criticism towards her are "bizzarre". I guess the reason is that for someone who has become the greatest music artist in the world, with an influence that reaches well over music, a cultural icon, an economic force able to move the GDP of a country, you would expect this person to be an exceptional musician, and objectively she is not, she's an average writer, singer, and a mediocre instrumentalist.
What she is exceptional at is her energy on the stage, the ability to connect with her target demographic, her curated look, her beauty, her showmanship on stage, the choreography of her shows... I won't be able to do a 1000th of what she does on stage and that's why she is an "idol" loved by millions of people all over the world.
But these are skills of a stage performer, which have nothing to do with writing or playing exceptional music. The music industry has changed, and we just have to accept that.

Her lyrics are great too. Go listen to All Too Well.
Don't like her? Fair enough, but why the constant need to put her down. I'm 62, I grew up in the 60s/70s. My first concert was Queen in 1977. I've seen a lot of people come and go, I think Taylor is fantastic.

She does play instruments. Multiple.

It's becoming really bizarre this obsession with trying to criticise her.

Of course you are not being unreasonable.

Her music is bland mainstream pop, there is nothing particularly innovative or creative in what she produces, and nothing in her lyrics shouts as exceptional either, it's just average pop lyrics targeting teenagers.

The point is that today's music industry is not really about the music itself, but much more about the stage persona, their social presence, the ability to teenagers to relate with them.

What has happened in the last 20-30 years in Korea and Japan, with the music being dominated by the "Idols" is now taking over the music industry in USA and Europe.

To be a music star, you need to be good-looking, young, fit, need to be great on the stage, good at dancing, performing and cultivate your social presence. Being a musician is a really minor part of that, and to some extent, irrelevant.

Most of the current stars have limited music knowledge, can hardly play an instrument and from a strictly perspective of their musical talent, mediocre at best. But that is now what the industry is about today, it is about creating idols.

Compare that to 40 years ago for example, where you could be one of the greatest band in the world and have as your frontman Mark Knopfler, not exactly the sexiest man in the world, but a genius with a guitar on his hands.

Today he would have zero chances of success, no one cares if you can actually play an instrument.

TBF, people have filled up many a thread writing about things they don't like about Meghan Markle. I think people are just more likely to comment on things they don't like or generally find a bit annoying rather than about things they enjoy or like (well on social media, anyway).

Why in gods name would you spend so long writing about someone you don't like.

There's something very unpleasant about the vitriol. 'needs to be put back in her place'. Where's that then?

Average. She's won 326 awards, from AMAs to Grammys. Don't like her music that's totally fine. But come now. That's just embarrassing.

90% of the world likely has no opinion of her.

I don’t get the hate. I’ve overheard a couple of her songs, it’s commercial pop with catchy lyrics which obviously connect with people and a lot of people like that. If you’re not interested in commercial pop you’ll nod your head, acknowledge it’s not for you, and go back to listening to Stravinsky or Dream Theater or whatever you like.

The haters are weird - it reminds me a bit of the “Disco Sucks” movement of the late 70s which, while rooted in homophobia and racism, seems to share quite a few commonalities.

I think the thing is the best songwriters and singers in the world aren’t always the most popular. TS is obviously good live and is really inoffensive and has an enormous fan base probably because her music can appeal to so many people. I’d put Harry Styles in the same category.

I think just because some is hugely popular it doesn’t make them overrated but equally it doesn’t make them the best just that for whatever reason they have mass appeal.

Your analogy can stand til it takes root. It still makes bog-all sense.

Just own it dude. You spoke nonsense!

And other posters pointed it out too. 😂

The fact is you CANNOT say someone is crap and overrated when you have only listened to 10 or so of 200 odd songs!

But I do love it that YOU and many other haters just can't stop thinking about, and talking about Taylor Swift.

Saying it’s the same cake only confirms that you haven’t listen to many of her songs. Point proven.

It's the same cake. Lol.

Different cake would be different musicians. You can like Victoria sponge and not like lemon drizzle cake.

Analogy stands. You don't have to eat all of something to know if you cannot stomach it.

Your cake analogy doesn’t work. Would you decide you hate all cake and go on about it to people because you’ve tried a couple of different types of cakes?