I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

I agree. I was in a relationship and had 2 children with a Muslim man. Whilst his family wasn’t impressed at first I was never ever asked to convert or force me to do anything I wasn’t comfortable with. Even though we aren’t together I’m still close to his family. We may have different views on life and I might not agree with some of their views / way they love their life but in no way is any of it dangerous or anything like the Daily Mail would have us all to believe. In my opinion this islamaphobia just causes more segregation which is a vicious cycle. On the whole Islam is a very peaceful religion and my ex’s family are generous and peace loving people who do so much for others. When they have a BBQ in their shared garden they take food to all their neighbours and there are lots!!

There's lots of different strands of Islam just like there are Christianity and Judaism. The difference theologically is that Islam has never undergone a Reformation like Christianity did and has never been separated from the legislature and political process like Christianity did during the Enlightenment. So in many countries, laws are made with reference to Sharia whereas you don't get this with Christianity in Europe - the Church is separated from the State (Republic of Ireland was a notable lagger here but it got there eventually).

That makes things very challenging in those countries where there may be citizens whose lives are very circumscribed or even endangered by the tenets of a very conservative form of Islam eg women and gay people. Especially women. But often in those countries the fundamentalist governments were able to take over due to a variety of historical factors, not least the toxic legacy of colonialism - so it's politics and power grabs more than religion.

But then at the same time there have always been and still are extremely enlightened interpretations and ways of living under Islam which have produced brilliant and astounding art, literature, science and mathematical traditions.

I personally don't think any religion can be inherently bad or good, it's all in the interpretation of the people who practise it - especially the people (usually men) in power. So I think it's important to also consider the wonderful contributions that Islamic societies have made to humanity over the centuries. And in repressive regimes, like Iran, to celebrate the brave individuals who work, often in great danger, to challenge the regimes and to help others.

A male neighbour of mine, who would have been about 40 at the time, experienced this in Bradford 20 years ago. Not sexual comments, but harassment and being told he had no business there. Unfortunately he had a job there for a few months and had to put up with it daily.

This is a Muslim Mumsnetters sub-board, it's here.

It was a genuine question, I've not met many Muslims at all irl hence the question. Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I have to admit I'm surprised by some of it, but that is just my own ignorance.

Ok, assuming this is a genuine question, based on my background.
Generally speaking, Bosnian / Turkish Muslims*:

• Women have equal rights to men, hold jobs and positions of power in society (Women in Turkey got the right to vote in 1930, Turkey had its female prime minister in the 1990s, long before Germany and there hasn't been a female president in the US as of yet).
• Mediterranean cuisine and lifestyle (that is to say not all Muslims are Asian)
• Generally more liberal in interpretation of what is 'modesty' in women
• Education is seen as key to progress (we have female lawyers and doctors in my family going back generations)
• No arranged marriages
• Divorce or being single is accepted in society
• White including blonde and blue eyed, although more Mediterranean darker skinned is also possible
• Religious (e.g. pilgrimage to Mecca), but liberal, may drink alcohol but typically not eat pork although some do

Thank you. I think I'm probably suffering from the 'headlines' about Islam tbh. I need to educate myself. Just a small positive aside, but there's a group in Dublin called the Muslim Sisters of Eire who distribute food to the homeless/needy each night at the GPO. Wonderful women ❤️

All the Abrahamic religions appear to have exclusively male holy officers - rabbis, priests, imams. It has an impact.

Thanks! Do you not think though that the 'culture' in Ireland was almost entirely based on the religion? It's v different now obviously, but it wasn't so much Irish culture as much as it was forced Catholicism for a long time?

Well religion is what religion you follow wheras culture is based largely on where you are from or brought up.
So many of the things that people think they hate about Islam - treatment of women for example is due to the fact that the people with those attitudes were brought up somewhere or by people who believe women are inferior NOT the fact that they are Muslims

Religion is more your own personal belief/relationship with a diety. I could have no personal religion though and still identify with an Irish Catholic background, and feel pressure to conform to familial expectations. No children before marriage, for example. Even though that wouldn't be illegal anymore in the UK it would be a problem in my 'culture'/ family.

I haven't really noticed eg on the thread about the Michaela Wembley school there is respect for all religions. Phobia means hatred of and I don't see hatred. You can criticise Islam and Christianity with its being phobia or hatred or hate crime. There are some appallingly sexist attitudes in some religions - see my link to the podcast on that thread I mention including Jehovah's Witneses (who are Christian). I don't think islam is subject to any more criticism than any others on Mumsnet. What we need to fight very hard to do is to preserve the right to say a particularly religion or all of them are wrong or sexist without being accused of "Islamaphobia" or hate crimes.

One reason the UK has never been so popular is that we allow criticism of all religions and none.

I haven’t attacked anyone. You’ve reduced the debate to an attempt to start a tit for tat on sharing articles on attacks, in an attempt to demonise the entire Muslim community in India.

Maybe start to think about why you support the far right in India given their atrocious history in India.

In the spirit of 'there's no such thing as a stupid question ', can someone please explain the culture Vs religion thing to me?

I don't care what religion you are as long as you respect me as a human being, respect my choices and don't ostracise me for being different to you.

Which religion adhers to the above? ... I can't think of any....

I am also Muslim and married to a 'white guy'. I also celebrate Christmas and my son is mixed race. My marriage has been accepted by the Muslim community who are very welcoming and I have been warmly welcomed by his family too.
I am very aware of the issues within the community (like all communities we have our issues) but your comment comes across very islamophobic. You might know a few Muslims but the ones I know are very similar to myself. I follow the middle path, focus on myself, I don't wear a headscarf and I work in the legal field.

Most muslims just want to live their lives without having constant judgment by people like you. I pay my taxes, live a great life and was born here. You cannot speak on behalf of all Muslims by saying living peacefully is not the ethos of muslims. Have you spoken to all the muslims in the UK to form this opinion? As previous people have said, incel culture is on the rise, young people from any race are vulnerable in lots of different ways. I doubt you have any Muslim friends the way you speak about them. You come across extremely judgmental. And if you do, I feel sorry for them.

In my experience the worst islamophobia comes from our Indian cousins like this poster. I've lived in England all my life and have never had any racism from anyone apart from the Indian community who love to pit Muslims and people from the UK against eachother just for brownie points and to be told they are perfect examples of multiculturalism and its all the nasty muslims that are the problems.

I'm curious which country you are from @Cyclebabble where interfaith marriages between Hindus and Muslims are common. It sounds lovely.

Indian Muslims, Arab Muslims, Indonesian Muslims they're all not the same!

@YouDontLike this is exactly the type of attitude I'm talking about.
Of course, history plays a part but India is full of division. Its not just Hindus Vs Muslims. Because of the caste system upper caste Hindus think that the untouchables are shit on their shoes, etc.
All of this is disgusting and unacceptable.
In my home South East Asian country people are trying to sow division but we were never like that. Even in Indonesia, the world's most densely populated Muslim country, not everyone wears headscarves!
In my home countries my teachers, doctors, nursery workers etc all Muslims. Some are strict, some not.
I was very surprised to find so many hardliners In the UK who are nothing like the loving, gentle accepting people of my homeland.

It's the attitude of dogmatism and religious obsession that's the issue here.

Even Iran - a moderate, prosperous country until religious elements took over.

Always focus on the truth. 'Islam" isn't to blame, neither is any religion but the attitude of proponents is.

I don't see it on mn any more than anything else. And like a pp I resent : disagree with classifying it as 'phobia'.

I object to all 'not integrating'. When in Rome, why move to Spain and not enjoy the Spanish parts. Many groups come to countries and are naturally drawn to others, that we can all accept. But a lack of integration means you get a mini-india, which is what Wembley is now referred to. There have been government papers on this, and studies into why British Muslims have not integrated into society to the same extent that other ethnic groups, but little has been achieved.

YABU to be surprised. MN has always been full of Islamophobia and racism. It's just getting louder everywhere now.

Yes this is how I feel about it. Freedom from the religion is something we should aim for in the U.K.

I take issue with anyone who preaches, encourages, takes part in, etc any practice that is harmful or damaging to someone else. So I take issue with people who practice militant Islam and want to harm others as a resultant, but I also take issue with for example, Westboro Baptist church and their homophobia.

I don't take issue with individuals within religions. I have many friends from different religions (Islam, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, etc) who don't go around trying to harm others, so in my eyes they are good people and I really don't care what religion they believe in. I don't hate a random woman on the street wearing a hijab and I'd treat her no different to anyone else, but if she came up to me and (hyperbole here, never actually happened) said I was disgusting and should cover myself, then I'd tell her to bugger off 🤷‍♀️

I have a lot of Iranian friends who left Iran after the revolution there and I find their situation sad. They are Muslim, and loved their home country, but didn't feel safe there after the revolution and rise of more conservative Islam. Which I think is sad, as they very clearly identify as Muslim and practice Islam, but were suddenly seen as "Not Muslim enough" because they for eg didn't always wear a veil, sometimes liked wearing jeans or Western clothes and encouraged their daughters to go to university and have a job

No religion is sacred. Everything can be questioned. Questioning is not being phobic.
Personally I question all major religions because they seem intent on subjugating and oppressing women. I'm a feminist and will call that out.
So, from my perspective YABVU.

There is a difference between being biased against a people and calling out bad practices among a group of people.

if any group uses their religion to deny a subgroup of the population equal rights that needs to be called out. In different cultural settings and with different religions we might see those subgroups most often identified by race or sex. Access to education, impractical clothing requirements, restrictions on movement, rules about working, different treatment by the legal system, and separation within the public sphere, may all be blamed on culture, but every culture uses religion to justify its bias.

This is not unique to Islam. We turn this focus to our own culture and local government when any religious fundamentalists try to sway public policy.