I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

That's not the point I'm making - I'm pointing out the similarities between Christianity and Islam.

That wasn't a Muslim body, it was a student.

And there is Christian worship in schools in the country, so not an extra right.

If you don't see how insisting that Muslims are demanding extra is harmful then all your grandiose bleating about fighting for women means fuck all.

Muslim women are some of the most disenfranchised in this country.

You remember Banaz Mahmood? It was a white woman police officer who turned her away and accused her of acting. She was then killed.

I'm so sick of this posturing by you and others.

the word "hatred" in your comment is hyperbolic and unhelpful.

An example of extra rights would be the family who took the Michaela (sp?) school to court. The ethos of the school is very clear, but one family wanted extra prayer time. They could have decided that school wasn't for them - but no they dragged them to court. And for sure, that case may have consolidated/solidified some laws/practices.

But it was most definitely asking for extras.

Muslims don’t integrate into other societies

Um, in the UK we have Muslim MPs, a Muslim Mayor of London and until recently a Muslim First Minister of Scotland. Muslim peers. Muslim judges. Muslim academics. Muslim healthcare professionals. Muslim authors and Muslims in all other professions and roles.

WTF is going on with Mumsnet at the moment? Have the Great Replacement nutters infiltrated or something?

meh. I am an atheist so if i obeyed my husband as much as any deity it would amount to zero.

I got married in a registrar's office, and there was no obeying in anything i said. I would have either requested different wording or declined to marry. I haven't been in a christian wedding that includes the "obey" part since about 1990 when one of my nieces had it included and i had to restrain myself from standing up and shouting "make him say it too"

Having said that. I was at an extremely fundie wedding the other week where not only the preacher banged on a LOT about how now the chap is head of house and her job was to do what he said, they included it in their self-written vows too (him: i am in charge and will do my best to make good decisions. her: you are in charge and i will support whatever you want). That was extremely uncomfortable, luckily the groom knows me and had warned me in advance.

TBH I think that is absolute rot. I can understand why, in the days when women weren't allowed even their own bank accounts, some of that may have been practical. But my mum - bank account thing applied to her - didn't say it either, and my dad wouldn't have wanted her too.

but that all strays from the point.

Still interested in the weight of a woman's voice compared to a man's in a sharia court.

Which Muslim bodies are demanding extra rights? Stop preaching this hatred. Muslims obey the law of the country they're in, it's one of our beliefs.

You hit the nail on the head @WhatsTheProblemSarah exactly.

So I work. I don't have to use my money for household expenses. But I happily choose to. I know he's not able to take on the full burden and I'm fine with that. I'm allowed to do that.

We have to remember as well. Just because someone's muslim. It doesn't mean they are going to be the perfect Muslim and practice everything correctlyand perfectly. We are only human. Some people get it wrong completely out of ignorance. Some are jist horrible and dont care and hide it by saying its islam. Others dont know the difference between culture and religion or just dont know. Or some are just doing their best.
As with most people in life in general.

That's an interesting read. I guess, as with many things, the key is working together.

Of course, you could argue that some men might use it to their advantage to get their own way, but the same could be said about the below statement too, so I guess both party need to strive to be reasonable.

In Islam, men are obliged to spend on their wives; the wife does not have to work or earn a living. Even if she has an independent income or she becomes rich, the husband is still obliged to spend on her as much as she needs.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah no problem I appreciate you asking

It's one of the most common questions I get.

If you ask my DH I am the boss 🤣

You see Islam gets singled out in this respect but Christianity also says that women should obey their husbands!
Here's an except from the New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24:

My mother and stepfather believe in the 'wives submit to your husbands'. She's not subjugated, it means that men are the head of the house and families should be traditional.

There are still many other issues with their interpretation of Christianity which has plenty of sexism, misogyny, physical chastisement, superstitions.

But the idea that women are being routinely opposed because of this wedding vow is false and a pretty pathetic example if we're comparing it to the abuse of women in other countries.

Thanks for replying. I've always wondered how that bit worked in the dynamic of modern Muslim families.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/13661

This probably will explain better than I can, if you want to look at it.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah if he asked me nicely then yes I would. But so would he If I asked him.

But in islam I don't have to cook or clean anyway. So no, not really. He has to provide the food etc. If I want to go to work I can. If I want to be a housewife, I can. If I want a cleaner etc then he has to do that.

Obey and respect doesn't mean do everything he said to the point that I'm like a slave. It means for example. I would prefer you not to speak to this person, because actually they aren't very nice for you and then the reason why. That's just one example.

Yeah, but most people that get married in a church don't worship regularly. Many aren't really very religious at all.

I'm genuinely curious about this dynamic in real life. If he tells you to make him a sandwich do you have to do it? Or is the idea that he wouldn't do that because it's not respectful to you?

Some people have dropped it from the wedding vows. Doesn't change what's in the bible (the word of God according to Christians).

I thought most people had dropped that shit?

@SallyWD exactly. I mentioned that in my reply too

You see Islam gets singled out in this respect but Christianity also says that women should obey their husbands!
Here's an except from the New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24:

"Wives, obey your husbands as you obey the Lord. The husband is the head of the wife just as the Lord is the head of the church people.
Wives should obey their husbands in everything, just as the church people obey Christ."

In most Christian wedding ceremonies there's a line where the woman vows to obey her husband.

I actually admire them for their faith…

This explanation, of why Muslims don’t integrate into other societies, is quite interesting and a good insight into why Islam unsettles some people.
https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Islam-integrate-well-in-Western-society
When you are demanding extra rights or bending age-old laws, this does tend to set you apart from those who are happy with the Status Quo, and don’t think that your rights should exceed theirs, especially as some of our laws are also centuries old.
However, once you understand the pressures that Muslims are under, it makes more sense.
If as many nominally Christian people suddenly started spreading the word of Christ (which, as Christians, you’re supposed to) and demanding that rights and laws change to suit their agenda, you can be sure that they would be equally as demonised!

@WhatsTheProblemSarah we are told to respect and obey our husbands. But there's obviously a limit..so if he told me to Rob a bank. I'm obviously not going to do that!

I don't have to listen to my adult son or uncle etc at all. Unless I'm looking for advice

Most marriage vows through out the world say a woman has to respect honour and obey their husband. This is in church ceremony too so nothing new.

Men are also told they have to provide and respect women.

Our Prophet (PBUH) would regularly ask his first wife Khadija for advice. We don't just follow the quran. But also the way the prophet lived etc.

Surely indicating the exact area would indicate which museum her daughter works at?

also just to add. As a Muslim community we, especially the women. Have noticed a lot of 'cowboy imams' recently on social media and they are spreading so much false information and seem so focused on bashing women.

I just want to clarify that they are WRONG. Oh so very wrong.

So if someone's watched that then made an opinion on something based on it. I would kindly ask you to ignore. Because it does seem a fashion amongst some young men at the moment.

If anyone would want to learn or understand something about Islam. Maybe just because they want to know why we or someone does something, i personally would refer you to either Mufti Menk (Southampton african) or Imam suleiman (in canada).

I only say because I can explain things myself but I don't know it all. I'm not a qualified scholar. But for me they are the best scholars I have come across.

Also ignore if you wish!

Doesn't Islam preach that women should always obey their husbands/male family members? I think this often includes adult sons.