I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

so glad someone made this point. 100% agree. We ignore so much because the government is terrified of being called racist.

Indeed and instead of an impressionable young man one of the people on the sexist podcast I mentioned is even a lawyer. Obviously all we women know there is sexism amongst most groups of men.

Interesting case I just saw by the way - if you want help from the state with housing they will not find a house for you near a private school of your choice. In this case the individual wanted to remain near a private Islamic school. The Court of Appeal says local authorities do not have to house people near particular religious schools https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2024/405.html In the case concerned the parents had found a private fee paying Islamic school for their child. although the principle of a parent in social housing / homeless who had a child in a private Catholic school etc would also be treated the same of course.

@Brefugee completely agree. Most of us try and call the rogue ones out. But we are ignored mostly. I'm always happy to provide reputable sources, based on my own research. But I only do so if asked or if its a discussion like this.

Otherwise I wouldn't bring it up in conversation.

wtf you on about with goose and gander?

plenty of us complain about ageism the other way too.

But you are equating over 55s with Islamophobia. That is ageist claptrap

i include him in the right wing fanatics tbh. But yes.

(have enjoyed that Tailor chap on Twitter really outlining how Tate's vanity on his physique makes him dress so badly and makes him look like a twit)

Quit the ageism.
Quit the racism too, come to that, but mostly stop with the ageism.

Over 55? A large number of us were at the Rock against Racism, in the anti Apartheid marches in the 80s.

But it's apparently ok to dig on someone for their age, it's one of the last (along with ableism) acceptable "isms"

Shame on you. If you're lucky you'll be older too, someday. You'll complain about it then.

young men are listening and agreeing with the kind of tripe I would include Andrew Tate in that. There are some disgusting male influencers about now and is important we all as mums educate our sons to respect women as equals

If we want to learn abut Islam, you are right to offer good sources.

The problem with the rogue Imams is that, of course, impressionable young men are listening and agreeing with the kind of tripe that @Xenia described. That is worrying in the same way far right extremists influencing young white men is worrying.

I cannot speak for Jews or Muslims as I am Christian, but it is also numbers. There are about 3m + muslims in the UK and only 200,000 jews and a lot of the jews integrated and indeed inter married etc, although of course not all. It does happen with most groups in a few generations anyway which I am hopeful we are not on the brink of a big issue. In about 1815 some of my ancestors who were Irish moved to NE England and a few others after the famine and they lived in Irish communities working on farms and as coal miners. Yet in 2 or 3 generations they were marrying the English.

It is the radical elements that are the problem - Nigeria pretty much divides into Christian and Muslim and some of the violence there is caused by extremes like Boko Haram. A lot of it comes from poverty for all groups and lack of education. Other than funding some extreme things ( a very very big "other than") I don't think the oil rich Saudis spending money like water in the 1970s in London and buying race courses have ever been a problem in the UK for the majority of the 67m people in the UK. Most UK muslims live in harmony with Christians in the UK. If you feel disillusioned with a country as it is not the promised land or other people get to be Prime Minster like Sunak and you are finding it hard to get any sort of job then you tend to feel fed up. Hopefully the essence of Islam and even things like no drugs, no drink mean there is less rather than more trouble. We shall see. I was just pretty surprised by the words of that podcast. I am not suggesting it is typical of all Muslim men but we should all continue to have the right to call out sexism when we see it (and also the other way round -those against equality and women's rights have a right to argue for the other stance if they want as long they don't push women around or act against the law).

For those in London who may be want a woman in charge for a change the only candidate who might unseat Khan who otherwise will win a 3rd term is Susan Hall so I do encourage all London voters to vote tomorrow. Even if you want to vote for someone else do vote - women fought hard to have the right to vote.

There's been an influx of extremist influence in many countries leading to a lot of niqabs. The majority of Muslims are Sunnis but this very strict version based on literal interpretation of the Quran is Wahabbi. It's from the Middle East.

Peoples who have been Muslim for 100s of years, without even wearing the headscarf are being shamed, lectured to and intimidated for not covering up.

Not sure if you're Muslim from your posts but in my home majority Muslim country this is becoming a real problem and sowing division. It doesn't matter what you say about not being supposed to judge, we have religious police etc checking people's national identity cards for their religion if they look Muslim and eat during daytime Ramadan! Sharia law was supposedly only applicable to Muslims in personal matters such as family court. But it's extending further. We even have cases where a man converted to Islam before divorcing/passing away so the kids were removed from their mother and put into an orphanage because Muslim children have to be raised in a Muslim family. It went all the way to the highest court. The decision was overturned but who in their right mind would even agree with such a rule?

Using religion to control people isn't a Muslim only problem obviously, Christians also had it but in 2024 Britain being a strict Christian will lead to you being mocked, shamed and criticised. Most cultural Christians are actually atheists.

Jewish communities are different. For one, they're a minority, just like Sikhs and Hindus. They'll never be a large enough body to influence any form of public policy unlike Muslims, in the UK.

I live abroad now, but used to live near to Manchester. There were entire areas where people were worried to go and walk down the streets. Streets that my uncles and their friends (different nationalities/cultures..whatever, just friends) walked down as kids and young men. It feels frightening to be around these areas, a friend and I were both very aggressively shouted out when 19/20 years old, for no reason and once almost run off the road for ignoring advances (we both had boyfriends) We used to get on the bus into Manchester and go through a certain area and the bus atmosphere would change as people were often threatened and robbed of all their money, rings etc
This was back in 2001 ish, haven’t lived there since then. I’m now an immigrant in another European country and respect and admire their culture, integrate fully and have friends and acquaintances from all walks of life.
People will call be racist for saying the way it was, even back then, it’s not racist and just would not be accepted in the country I’m in now

@Xenia thank you.

Let us hope the West Midlands does not favour such retarded attitudes. I suppose in as much as this individual campaigns on Gaza, it might be expected. An educated man who still finds time to engage with this stuff and seek public office is something women need to be wary about. You don't need to be ignorant to oppress people or have hateful ideas about women and their status. You just need to get a bit of power to go with it, it seems

''Instead of accepting that some members may think or act in disagreeable ways, one dismisses those members as fakes.''
Its called the 'no true Scotsman' argument.

@Xenia if you see my post further back. I actually made a point of their being cowboy imams going around social media at the moment condemning women for visually everything. I also pointed out that they where not worth listening to and spreading a lot of hate towards women.

I then recommended reputable scholars to listen to of Mufti Menk and imam suleiman.

These cowboy imams are quite embarrassing and are using social media and people are seeing it and then 'shouting, you see islam is evil'

However, islam is very deep and can't be defined by one of these idiotic podcasts.

More than half those in the UK now are atheist (and about 47% nominally Christian but virtually all those do not vow to obey husbands and Christianity has changed over the years and indeed had a reformation so things moved on.

The proposed West Midlands mayor has had a bit of trouble because of his views on women according to reports although I suppose there will be some who agree with the views express on women

....." “There are men in the household who are letting the women take control... and act like a little bitch”, he continues.
Another participant chimes in that “We know the majority of [Satan's] followers are women. If you empower women so much, when they start following [Satan], society will as well”, to which one of the others replies, “70% of hell is women”.
The podcast host, apparently anticipating pushback from some listeners, interrupts, “People look at us and think, 'oh, you’re a bunch of oppressors'. No we’re not, we’re people who understand our position and understand what we’re here for”.
Turning to clothing and the dangers of women dancing on TikTok, one of the group states that “The mothers need to worry about their daughters, because if she’s dressing like a slut, yeah, your daughter's gonna dress like a slut”.
To resounding agreement from the group, he continues, “the husband in the house needs to understand that his daughter is going to be the reproduction of his wife, so if he doesn’t control his wife how’s he going to make sure his daughter's safe?”
The group cheers in agreement when one of them, discussing how modestly a Muslim woman should dress in public, states that “If you walk past a woman, you shouldn’t even hear her heels”.
Agreeing that a Muslim woman’s father, brother, husband and son all have a “responsibility…over” her, one of the group posits that if a woman is about to leave the house, one of those men “should say, where are you going like this, cover yourself up”.
Yakoob agrees, commenting that a husband is “given that authority by Allah”.
“If he doesn’t use it…” adds the solicitor, shrugging his shoulders in one the clips posted, to, and then deleted from, Instagram.
Elsewhere in the segment, one of the men delivers a message to women who object to being told what to do by men. “Pathologising masculine authority as abusive is the fastest way to let everyone know you’re unmarriageable. I’m sorry your father failed you, but nobody with any sense of [honour] is going to endure you”, he says. Yakoob can be seen in the surviving video footage banging the table in agreement.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/minted-minds/conversations-that-matter-WsAC4UBleP3/#google_vignette (from the 57 mins. in)

so they shouldn't get married in Church then, surely! The hypocrisy is dire.

I'm not tarnishing anyone

It’s an observation - based on the article. I admire their faith, as I said in the comment immediately after it.
Islam does expect Islam to be the main focus of all followers, and as a PP has also commented, the Michaela school case was what I was thinking about.
I don’t preach hatred - don’t put meanings on my written words that you have misunderstood.

You totally ignore the violence practised by the extreme forms of Islam. Forgotten the Manchester Arena.bombing? The London bombings? 911? Lockerbie? Bataclan? Charlie Hebdo?And all the other attacks?

I'm perfectly aware that of course that the majority of Muslims are not involved in these murders but it.doesn't take many extremists to inflict something catastrophic on a Western population. Which is why 'Islamophobia', which suggests an irrational fear of Islam, is a.silly word. There are good reasons for us to be wary of the actions of the few.

You would be better writing to hate preachers or people you know with extreme views than to us. They are the ones who attack us and tarnish the name of Islam.

You are being silly. I do plenty for women, i have outlined on this thread some of those things that are relevant to the conversation.

What i see of you on this thread? sniping from the sidelines, nitpicking and generally trying to piss on people's chips. I owe you zip. No explanations, nothing.

I didn't extrapolate anything, but i did misread your comment about organisations not demanding anything, so apols for that.

You are the one acting like Mother Teresa when nothing in your posts shows you have done a single thing for women, let alone Muslim women.

I see through you.

If you don't see how extrapolating one student into 'Muslims are demanding extra rights and trying to bend age old laws' then you wouldn't understand the meaning of hyperbole if it bit you on the nose.

you are such a charmer.
ok so it was one family. And that one family have made an impression.

You can get in the sea with your "grandiose" stuff. You are the one using stupidly hyperbolic language.