Islam groups calling for caliphate in Germany, aibu to be petrified?

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Remember the 70/80s with high youth unemployment and the dawning realisation that girls were just as good at school as boys, given the right teaching methods and environments? and there was a cohort of young men with what they saw as no future, no job, and no girlfriend because they were all off at uni making eyes at "posh lads"? and the rise of things like the National Front?
Is there something similar happening amongst young people who, as the Germans put it, have a "migration background" (could be 2nd gen, even)? Is that what this is? or is it something else?

Because it seems to me that in hard times, cost of living crisis, climate crisis, wars springing up everywhere and an apparent sudden rush to the right in many western democracies, there are often reactions, and people bunch together with people they see as the same as them.

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What do you mean by “struggling with the idea of being accepting and progressive of all”? Western countries have been accepting, far too accepting. The grooming gangs in the UK got away with the rapes of hundred of girls directly because people were afraid to be called racist if these men were challenged.

If you come to a country legally and you integrate and accept the social norms and the laws and customs of that country then you are more than welcome by the majority of the people. What you don’t get to do is to impose your own social norms, customs and laws on that country, and neither do your descendants. You can criticise by all means, if there are crimes being carried out against you because of your race or religion then you are right to demand that the law protects you. What you absolutely do not get to do is to change the social norms, customs and laws of that country to suit you and neither do your descendants, not under any circumstances. If you see atrocities being committed then of course you are right to challenge that, but that’s a different thing.

If you come to a country illegally and then start demanding to impose your customs and laws, that are foreign to the country that you have entered illegally, then that is invasion not migration.

If you want to live under Sharia law then pick an Islamic country, there are many very beautiful Islamic countries, and live there. You cannot have two clashing systems of law in a country, and many Sharia laws breach the human rights laws of Western countries, particularly laws and rules concerning the appearance and behaviour of females. Female genital mutilation is a crime in this country for instance, and much of Sharia law also goes against the social norms and customs of Western countries. I know Muslims who came to the West specifically to escape the restrictions that living in an Islamic country imposed, the last thing they want is for Sharia Law to be imposed on them here.

That also goes for people from the West going to Islamic countries by the way. There are caveats though, if that country isn’t a democracy and the people of that country are being oppressed by a totalitarian regime like the Taliban, then that’s a different story.

Yes unique to Afghanistan and Syria and Iran and Saudi and Yemen and Chad and Somalia and Iraq and Sudan and Sierra Leone and Pakistan and so on. A pretty culturally diverse set of countries with one common theme between them...their religion.

But that is not specific to Islam. Christian majority DRC, CAR and South Sudan are all incredibly unsafe for women and you can see the slippery slop some of the more 'religious' states in the 'land of the free' are on just now too.

Essentially everytime the grubby little claws of religion latch onto power women will suffer. So it is, so it was, so it shall be (until we rid ourselves of the scourge of organised religion).

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on what is going on outside of the people you know.

My experience with Muslims in my area is most are good people with a strong sense of family and public service. They often tend to see themselves as being more similar to Christians, particularly Catholics, than very secularized people, and are comfortable in society with all kinds of people, albeit they tend to on the social conservative side.

That being said, I also see that there is some kind of radicalization going on in larger cities, there are people who don't seem to be here to integrate in a meaningful way. There have been cases of Muslims in some differernt western countries being involved in conflicts in their home countries.

Personally, I think it may be in large part a problem of numbers. A place can only really integrate so many newcomers at a given time, and they do need to have some motivation to do so. And they need to be able to expect to be able to get healthcare, jobs, etc, similar to the rest of the population, or you will get real resentments. Not all countries have western types of values, whether people are comfortable with that or not, and it is possible to import people who have no interest in them and in fact think they are bad.

@Underthinker I meant the people with the power to stop it. They seem to brush everything under the rug with fake promises but nothing ever gets done.

@Lottie2shoes It is ongoing genocide with no one saying anything.

I feel like I've seen it mentioned once or twice on here.

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Fainting couch manufacturers would be laughing all the way to the bank.

This is too stupid, so we just ignore their suffering? Oh how very convenient for those causing it.

There was even a terrifying mob outside the Israeli embassy chanting the old genocidal slogan (“From the river….) on the Monday after the massacre BEFORE Israel had began its campaign in Gaza to recover the hostages and take out Hamas. No pause for reflection in terms of what it all meant, they just wanted to stick the boot in and revel in Israelis/ the Jewish community’s pain and suffering.

I wasn’t aware of that. But it sadly doesn’t surprise me.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said about the complacency and condescension on this thread

The sign might as well say "End All Wars"

But it doesn’t though, it says “Caliphate is the solution”

@9021Pho Brava!

Also interesting that people have no problem speaking out (rightly) on behalf of the women and children in Gaza but the women in Iran? Not so much.

But of course it’s Islam, not Israel that is the problem in Iran.

Labelling women’s legitimate fears as hysterical is a tactic as old as time. Any woman should be alarmed at the rise of religious extremism, and shouting ‘Islamophobia’ to shut down debate is pathetic. Especially when it’s done by right-on white middle-aged women who live to virtue signal their luxury beliefs.

100% agree @WomensRightsRenegade

I’m appalled and embarrassed by the complacency and the condescension of some the the PPs on this thread. Someone else called it above, so much sneering at people’s legitimate and evidence-based concerns. It’s like Owen Jones is here 🤮

Im a social democrat and reasonably liberal but I’ve been alarmed at the fundamentalist fervour on the steers of London for the past six months - many of those of those marchers are completely hateful, advocating for the destruction of Israel. A fellow Liberal democracy and one that shares our values and freedoms.

But most chilling was the celebrations we saw on the streets of London, Manchester, Berlin and other western cities hours after the atrocities of October 7th made the headlines. What were these people celebrating exactly?! Let’s see

• Murder
• infanticide
• Rape (children to grandmothers)
• Sexual mutilation
• Torture
• Necrophilia

There was even a terrifying mob outside the Israeli embassy chanting the old genocidal slogan (“From the river….) on the Monday after the massacre BEFORE Israel had began its campaign in Gaza to recover the hostages and take out Hamas. No pause for reflection in terms of what it all meant, they just wanted to stick the boot in and revel in Israelis/ the Jewish community’s pain and suffering.

Be in no doubt, there are actually bigots amongst us with hate in their hearts that wish to do us harm. The really unfortunate thing is that there are extremely credulous westerners (some appear to be on this thread) that want to help them.

I don't doubt for a second they have an agenda in what they choose to report on, and they are not even on my radar for getting my daily news.

But if they do report something verifiably happened, and that multiple third party sources also confirm, I really fail to see how them reporting it undermines the story?

The protest happened. The placards were waved. The speaker spoke.

It enrages me how women in these countries are largely ignored by the west and the left in particular.

Gambia.

and yes, I completely agree. Talking about what’s happening in to the women in Afghanistan or the girls subjected to FGM in Gambia (and too many other countries) isn’t speaking “for them”. It’s amplifying their voices.

thank you for putting it so eloquently.

the women in Iran who are protesting the beatings, jailing and killing of women who reject the hijab have repeatedly asked the rest of the world to share their stories. So we do.

the women of Afghanistan don't have as much internet access as those in Iran i suspect, but i am very aware of RAWA and will amplify their voices as much as i can which is what they ask of us.

2 examples. Am i stepping in and speaking for them or am i amplifying their voices. If you are ok with what is happening to them, i suspect you think it may be the former. If you are listening to what they are saying, the latter. Your choice.

An African country (i want to say which one but shamefully can't remember, begins with G) has re-legalised FGM. Hibo Wardere is devastated and asking us to spread info about FGM. Is that speaking for them or amplifying their voices?

Frankly? When they ask, i will speak up, join marches, join boycotts. Because that is how they get heard. Not by saying "well, i'm not one of them, i'd better not say anything because I'll be accused of White Feminism" [capitals intended to show it is A Thing rather than just because i'm a feminist who happens to be white]

as several German posters have pointed out: yes it was around 1,000 men. (and a very small, separate, group of women) calling for a caliphate.

And as we have also pointed out we are more worried that the resulting publicity from this idiotic stunt may cause support for the far right parties, including the AfD who are making hideous gains, and may get them into parliament.

And that the AfD are very open about how they plan to repatriate non-germans who they see as undesireable, commit crimes, overstay their visas. But also people who have aquired German citizenship if they become "undesireable", commit crimes, go on demos etc will be stripped of that citizenship and deported. And that includes people like me. Because while I'm not brown so i would probably last longer than someone from, say, Syria, i regularly go on demos (particuly the anti-right ones) and am also therefore not safe.

Slippery slope and all that. And that is our big worry. Because we can see it happening

except... on this thread at least... literally nobody has said that. Because that is wrong.

indeed several of us have said that we abhor all religions because of their patriarchal and authoritarian ways. And invading countries and pushing people into that religion (see also forced conversion of Jews during the Spanish Inquisition) is wrong. Always.

So trying to set up (they won't succeed) a caliphate in Germany/Hamburg comes under that. It is not acceptable.

I’m interested in your take on the below if you think what is happening in Germany is a RW lie? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064983-why-is-the-teacher-from-batley-still-in-hiding-if-we-do-not-have-a-problem-with-islamic-extremism-in-this-country