Islam groups calling for caliphate in Germany, aibu to be petrified?

@mollyfolk would you feel safer if Hamas, backed by Iran, were in charge?

What I meant is that this sort of action is what fuels the reaction and causes people to swerve to the right, it doesn’t happen in a vacuum, but I think that you are aware of that. For instance, we understand that the rise of Nazism in Germany was, in part, fuelled by the punitive nature of the Treaty of Versailles.

If Germany was the only place that this was happening then I would understand your argument better, but it’s not. You just have to look at countries like Greece and Italy to see that, and specifically what is happening in Spain at the moment.

I was using the men in women’s prison etc as a demonstration of the little regard that the left have for women, and how deeply misogynistic it is, and also the fact that claiming that something is far right now has a very low bar. I think that you are aware of that also.

What are you on about?

Do you honestly think that as a white, western woman you are safer because Israel is killing civilians and committing war crimes in Gaza?

I'm not claiming an exhaustive knowledge of the rights and wrongs of 2000 years of history. But history tells us that Palestine has been contested, as the birthplace of three major religions, for 2000 years. Personally, because I am white, western and female, I actually prefer Israel to govern such a significant world site.

the question was why is Israel facing accusations of genocide and I answered that question.

Certainly Hamas have genocidal intent and the pain and suffering of their victims is unimaginable. I believe civilians should never be targeted in a conflict.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Hamas have only prepared for their war against Israel since they were elected. I don't like or have to approve of any of their actions. Concern for ordinary Gazans... make me laugh, they haven't even dealt with food, power or water... Israel made certain those were delivered.

And yet not acknowledging the actual genocide that happened in Israel just a short time ago By Hamas - the official government of Gaza. They knew precisely what they were doing.

How have I dismissed anyone’s pain and suffering?

I am answering a question, in the briefest way possible, on why the Israeli’s government actions in Gaza were considered to be at risk of genocide.

I don't want to be German, because I am UK born. I speak French (quite well) some spanish and have Latin O level so can follow the gist of most European Romance language texts. I can read a menu in German but not a lot further. Trying to shade me as some kind of Nazi sympathizer.... ho ho ho.

And Gaza was their state. There were Gazan elections in 2008 (or there about), they elected Hamas, who spent the start up money on tunnels and guns, instead of schools and heallthcare or basic infrastructure. Worse still, they built armed fortifications under civilian infrastructure. Without any apology, HAMAS HAVE INVITED everything they are currently experiencing on their population. I am not suggesting Israel or Israelis are without blame. But it's currently going from bad to worse. Stupid, yes but hamas are being manipulated from Iran (anyone want to live there?)

I dream of going to Isfahan, and several other Persian/ Iranian historic cities but I can't see it happening in my lifetime.

I don’t think we can ever lose sight of the terrible atrocities that have also happened to Israelis. You can not dismiss the pain and suffering and they were entirely innocent.

Which is something they've agreed to whilst constructing a nice solid border to keep the palestinians in and everything else out, unless authorised by Israel. Gotta be honest, if Iran demanded France barricade us and prevent anything getting in or out without their permission, I'd be pretty pissed off with France if they complied. Probably rather more so than I would be with Iran actually - they're supposed to be our enemies and do shitty things, especially if we happened to be flinging missiles at them and calling for their destruction at the time. I'd be a lot more annoyed with a so-called ally betraying us. Weird how palestine and their supporters seem ok with it.

basically Genocide means that there us am effort to wipe out a people, in whole or in part. So, no not every conflict could be considered genocide. The ICJ found that there was a risk of genocide in Gaza.

Arguments for genocide in Gaza include aspects of the dehumanisation of the Palestinians by members of the Israeli government which can influence the way soldiers behave on the ground. The death rate of civilians due to the military tactics used, the extent to which the Israel authorities have destroyed infrastructure critical to life in Gaza - like the bakery’s, agricultural land, the hospitals. The humanitarian crisis- with 75% of Gazan’s displaced and not enough aid coming through, the conditions that have been created have the potential to kill many more.

@toomanyy umm the majority of Arabs living in Israel would describe themselves as Palestinian.

They have done so for 50 years.

We have travelled a long way from the demonstrations in Germany.

Does anyone feel threatened by it?

No, they won’t. Don’t peddle lies.

And Palestinians deserve their own state.

Are you English? Would you like to be German instead?

@toomanyy Israel will accommodate Palestinians as citizens, if they accept israeli citizenship and lifestyle. Work and live alongside Jewish people.

If they’re Israeli then they’re not Palestinian, are they? Engage brain.

Really? They’d kill them all? Does that include the 20% of the Israeli population who are Arab?

That does not justify genocide.

Israel fully intends to take over Palestine. Netanyahu said ‘in the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea’.

To do that they have to eliminate all Palestinians, by genocide.

Your platitudes about democracy don’t change that.

In fact none of the world’s 50 majority Muslim countries seem to want them.

The Egyptian state really does NOT want them in Egypt.

Also, the Gulf Arabs are never going to embrace the Muslim Brotherhood/Iranian extremism or any version of Islamist theocracy. They have worked very hard to broker an accommodation. Based on money. Their view of their future is being a safe middle ground.