To wish I didn't have my daughter

You said this so much better and so much more succinctly than I ever could. THANK YOU!

I've reported their post. Struggling hugely to read some of the replies on here but bloody well done to you for your repeated efforts to speak against this kind bullshit on this thread. There is, as many of us are all too aware, a reason that the rates of suicide are so very high for autistic people, and those advocating physical punishment for our inherent traits and mere existence should absolutely hang their heads in shame.

No it's not unreasonable but you did have her and she didnt choose to be here.
I worked as a family support specialist for the council for a while and it's extremely common for parents to feel as though they've lost control and nothing will fix the behaviour. First thing I'd do is have a quick Google and find local early help teams and do a self referral. Maybe add suspected potential ND as it can speed things up.
Sounds like she's needing something and not very good at communicating and regulating emotions.
Things I'd look at if I were you:

• you have 4 children which must mean you're very busy but dedicate alone time with her. It doesn't have to be long, even 5/10 mins daily and let her know this is just for her. You can do the same with the other children too and when she starts trying to take over, remind her of her 1:1 time.

-setting boundaries. Speak to DH and have an idea of what those boundaries are. You can integrate the children in this area by doing a family activity of creating house rules and decorate an A3 paper to make a poster or something. Ideally you want her to do the thinking so that it was seen as her idea and when she's doing something that's breaking a house rule, you can refer her to the poster that she helped colour in and design etc.

• having LOGICAL consequences for behaviour. No use saying 'if you continue to not let your siblings play in peace I'm going to take away the tablet for the evening' or 'you're not going to the farm on the weekend' as the tablet and the farm had nothing to do with the behaviour. Try making it relevant to what's happening.

• Be consistent. I promise it'll get easier if you and your husband are consistent.

• Regulating her emotions. It's a big one. Have a look at the colour monster book series. See if she responds to that. You can do activities involved with the book (you can easily find on google). You could also Start introducing traffic light system red, amber and green. Green being content, calm and happy. Amber a bit iffy, maybe tired, bored, just a little on edge. Red being angry, overwhelmed and overstimulated. You want her to be able to recognise what she's feeling. Pop some coloured circles up on the wall and you could ask her daily (once you've introduced what the colours mean) what colour she's feeling. If she's felling amber then ask her what does she think she needs to move up to green? A cuddle from mummy, playing a game with a sibling, eating etc.

• behaviour reward charts. I think they're great and they'll be lots of different types online that you can look at. They only work for short periods of time, couple of weeks or so. You can have a few for different behaviours. For example, one may be for not talking over other people, every time she actively waits her turn to talk you say 'well done! ' add another sticker. Every time she has 10 stickers (for example) she gets to choose a prize (have a box of cheap pound land tat or whatever works) Use it for positive reinforcement as some children much prefer it. You could also get a jar and fill with pasta for every random good thing she does so it might be 'wow, you shared those toys really well with your sibling, let's put a pasta in the jar' or 'I really liked the way you did good listening when X was talking, let's out another pasta in'. If you make it quite a big jar and then say say when she fills it up she can have a specific toy or go ice skating or whatever it is that would for you guys. You can have multiple charts etc going on at the same time if you're looking to address multiple. Behaviours.

Sorry if that's alot. Hoping it all made sense.

I feel for you.
My sister (now 45) broke by parents hearts when she was younger. Father now in his 80s and mother in her late 70s, she’s still at it. It’s relentless…feel so terribly sad for them. Torture is the only word I can describe it as. She’s been diagnosed with nothing, I think she’s just a real live asshole.

If anger is an issue I would strongly recommend 'Starving the Anger Gremlin." Kill two birds with one stone and set some time apart for just you and her. Mummy daughter coffee date, or nails or whatever whilst you work through the modules together week by week. Stay strong. It is normal. You're doing an incredible job mama xxx

@Jimmyneutronsforehead

I’m wondering - in terms you initially achieving well at school/exams/ finding a job - whether it was boundaries, parenting, establishing a routine that enabled you to do that. Would an ND diagnosis have been more beneficial to you? Which - I would argue - could have resulted in less clear boundaries/routine/scant support/waiting lists.

Would you have potentially refused to attend school/exam citing your neurodiversity as the reason, which your parent would have had difficulty adjudicating - and had to seek outside support from different agencies?
I think, as adults a great many of us think we have ND traits. In terms of my DD, I do think being aware of ND and coping strategies as an adult will help her navigate life as she becomes more independent.

I agree with your approach. I’m old school and I rule this house, not you! My nephew has just been diagnosed with ODD and to be frank, he’s a shit and always has been due to zero discipline in the home. When he smacked me across the face and spat at me aged 4 in my house because I told him not to strangle my dog repeatedly I was called out for telling him off and he was whisked off to McDonalds because he was sad after said telling off. Funny how he wasn’t sad enough to smirk and give me the finger as he was carried out to the car.
He's a wild kid and needed a different approach from the beginning. Even my own mother said he was short of a few good hidings. Before the abuse, I’ve never had to spank any of my kids 😉

This. It sounds very tough but there must be a reason for her behaviour. Maybe engage with a play therapist?

I can't believe some people on this thread are advocating smacking. Fortunately it's a minority of PPs, but the fact that even a few have advised such a thing is appalling. This child doesn't need punishment. It's impossible for anyone on this thread to diagnose her, of course, but there are many potential reasons for her behaviour, none of which will be improved by punishing her physically (or at all). Authoritarian parenting is never the answer. Authoritative, yes. Authoritarian? Never.

Being a 'lovely little girl' doesn't preclude her being ND. So the nursery needs to wake up. ND children are as lovely as any other child, however challenging their behaviour

And one thing was ALWAYS guaranteed to wind me up in school was a colleague saying 'He/she/they NEVER behave like that with me...'
Not helpful and rarely true

Sounds like you need to pull rank and start addressing her behaviour. She’s upsetting all of the family so I wouldn’t let it lie. When she throws a hissy fit, ignore her. Planned ignorance does work to curb the attention seeking. Huge age appropriate consequences and keep firm. Yes they wear you down and they are wise enough to know this and will keep pushing. It could be a sign of ND but hear me out, all kids have behaved in this manner in some way shape or form and she is competing with siblings. Start by addressing the behaviours and changing your approach before trying to stick a label on her. Worth asking teachers at her school what they think and seeing how she behaves in a different set up.

Just flagging that ODD is generally misdiagnosed PDA or trauma, it’s a cruel and outdated diagnosis. Her parents should get her reassessed. Contact the PDA society.

Please please please research PDA, and read / listen to The Explosive Child. There are no bad kids, and no child acts out in order to cause you misery, she is signalling distress and you need to dig deep to find out why. If it’s PDA, she needs a low demand lifestyle, she could be in burnout from masking at school. If could be trauma from attachment issues, something that happened when she was younger, she needs empathy and love, not resentment. Can you afford a private assessment? Play therapy? Occupational therapy?

I am a year 2 teaching assistant (6-7 year olds)
you sound just like the parent of a little girl in our class. However, she’s not like this at school. She’s very switched on, eager to learn, and surprisingly emotionally mature for her age. Despite this, she is apparently a terror at home and exactly how you’ve described your daughter to be. She has just been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD (oppositional defiance disorder)
Im not diagnosing your daughter, just passing on what I’ve seen in case you identify her with the symptoms.
How is she at school?

This is absolutely horrible to read and I'm sorry but I think you need to hold a mirror up to yourselves. Children's behaviour reflects how they are feeling and normally has much deeper routed problems and I'm sorry for being so harsh. But if you don't look deeper and find the route course then you're doing your daughter an injustice and things are only going to get worse. Talk to her school and GP about your concerns and get her help. She could even be neurodivergent and girls present a lot differently to boys. You need also change your negative thinking around your daughter and the words you use to describe her. Because frankly that wasn't a nice read. I feel so sorry for her.

Me? I'd refuse to feed her and if she kicks off, I'd put her in the garden. If she marches back in, I'd put her out again.
And repeat this. One of you will get tired first - but it mustn't be you. And try not to show any anger or you've lost the battle. She sounds very strong willed so your will has to be stronger. It's really hard, but if she's allowed to behave like this at 6, she'll be totally uncontrollable in a few years.
When mine were small, I had a policy of "I tell you once. I tell you twice. The third time you'll have a smack." That worked well, but Mumsnetters will confuse it with beating and abuse and flame me 🤣😅

Sound very similar to my son when he was younger. He was diagnosed with ASD aged 7. It was a huge relief and he has improved so much through the years.

Actually people have said that the description of this child’s behaviour reminds them, in many cases, of their ND child. It’s possible that this child is ND also and their behaviours are linked to this. People have suggested some things which might be helpful. Firm boundaries, consideration of possible sensory needs, NVR courses, not shouting or entering into arguments when tempers run high - these are just some of things I myself suggested but there are plenty of other really helpful suggestions on here. I’d argue that these things could be helpful for a child which isn’t ND. All children have needs. Whether they’re tired or hungry
or bored or testing us…. These are all needs and aren’t limited to either ND or NT children. Understanding needs applies to all children.

So OP could work from this advice and apply some ND related strategies to a nonND child. And if that were the case then I doubt any harm would be done. Arguably some good could be done!

Or the OP could ignore all the advice she has had from these other parents who recognise something in her post and have tried to help and she could instead take your advice. Advice which says her child likely isn’t ND and she should think about giving the child a smack as probably they’re just tired or hungry or playing up! I try to think about the potential for harm this advice could cause. What if you’re wrong? What if this child is ND and you’re advocating giving her a smack? (Not that any child, ND or not should be smacked in my view!)

So it’s smack a ND child who is behaving the way they are due to unmet and misunderstood needs and hope they learn to mask their needs out of fear of being hit VS. using ND strategies for a NT child which may turn out to be helpful.

On balance, and weighing up potential for harm, I know which way I’d go….

Why not continue on pathway for ND diagnosis AND sort out all those strategies that have helped. It’s not one or the other.

I saw a weird quote against one of my comments and had suspicions 😬

@BigGoose

I don't know if you've seen my post on page 4.

My mum described me exactly this way to the doctor doing my assessment about a month ago too.

My mum also could have got me on the pathway as a kid, and didn't, because much like your daughter I got into a routine at school, straight A's, no bother.

When school finished, and college, and then work, that's when I really declined which is why I am now a late diagnosed adult.

It really would have benefitted me greatly to know I was autistic at a younger age so I didn't blame all of my struggles and failings on character flaws that can be fixed and worked on and then reach the point of burnout when I've been against a brick wall for so long. It also would have benefitted me in relationships to know I was autistic and that my needs were not unrealistic or unachievable, just different.

I know that not every child who displays challenging behaviours will meet the diagnostic criteria, and a lot of children who do and do not meet the criteria would benefit from routine and structure, and there are some low demand approaches that can work for children who are simply strong willed that also work for children who have a different neurotype.

In OPs case though, to me, and to many others who have been through the diagnosis for themselves or for their children and have seen the diagnostic criteria and experienced the assessments it's so familiar.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead
@ChiefEverythingOfficer

My DD’s behaviour as a 6 year old sounds very similar to OP’s situation.

I’d already met with the school. I could have pursued a diagnosis.

Covid hit and there were scant resources and we needed to homeschool.

I feel I could have taken two paths.

1. Continued with ND diagnosis, allowed her to be on her own agenda regarding schoolwork, not set boundaries - citing her disability as the reason she wasn’t doing set work

2. Set a fixed timetable, boundaries and consequences over getting school work completed.

We went for the second option and she is now getting through secondary school successfully and achieving well. She has learnt that the school work NEEDS to be done, and completes this before her leisure time.

I see that this has made it's way to the Sun

There's a lot of evidence that this child is ND actually.

Are your eyes painted on?

That's just it though. Many of us with children who have been diagnosed (some of us with more than one child with neuro-deficits) have not attempted to diagnose anybody. We have simply given the OP the benefit of our lived experience.

If you have not lived through raising a child with Autism/ADHD and other mental health conditions, you are the one making ill advised suggestions that the OP should assault her child (yes, hitting children is assault). If you had offered a balanced alternative, to back up your OPINION that this has a behaviourial root cause with an absence of any underlying conditions, you would probably had a much better chance of getting your point across.

As it is, how dare you presume to know better than parents, educators and medical professionals. FYI, raising a child/ren with additional needs is hard - you can't just beat it out of them.