"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

I think it’s to be expected

No country would say yes we had an agreement to take migrants to that scale

Even if they were as close as anything

To give an example EU countries are saying no to each other. It’s just an outcome of increasing migration

Unfortunately it's nothing new, the UK govt has always had this attitude to Ireland.

In the EU commission Ireland and England were very close and usually voted together on most things. I guess the UK always viewed Ireland as the much weaker, smaller one. Since Brexit with Ireland having the backing of the EU Ireland are no longer the weaker partner and the UK government don't like it. They are learning what its like to be a small fish in a big sea and they don't like it.

@bombastix
It's just that the actual message from the UK has been extremely dismissive publicly of Simon Harris, and it's worth thinking why that is. Partly it is immediate politics, but the other part is something which shows a change in how the UK regards Ireland. Sunak was incredibly brusque. That is certainly different from the UK.

The tories and Ireland never had a good relationship the tories always saw Ireland as an irritant. If labour gets in I would expect things to change again

Lets hope this will stop the boat people as its unfair on those that have to wait years sometimes to get a visia and cost thousand to get a Brit citizenship
The "boat people" don't get visas or citizenship. They are illegal immigrants that either claim asylum when they get to Britain or disappear under the radar. A concerted international effort needs to happy to tackle the massive people trafficking trade but judging by international progress on the illegal drugs trade I won't hold my breath.

@Evanna13 - describing what happens in political life is not the same as approving of it. I don't approve of Brexit and I don't like Rwanda as a plan. But that doesn't mean I can't see some absolute piffle legally. It is not wrong to say that what the UK wants is in its self interest as expressed by its government. It is simple reality.

If I was mad, I would insist that Rishi Sunak's government accords to my left wing views on what should happen. Explaining the legal limits of something, or why the UK government can make a particular stance is just a neutral thing. You can't get steamed up about the fact that another country doesn't agree with the UK or the EU or whatever. This isn't about like or dislike.

I think the method by which the UK left the EU was very destructive. But the mistake is to assume it did not, for the UK at least, change any perception as to how it considers Ireland. I think from the exchange this week it is very clear it did and continues to do so.

That's my view. It doesn't mean I was pro leaving, or I am saying that I agree with Rees Mogg or a bunch of goady articles about gaming the Irish border. It's just that the actual message from the UK has been extremely dismissive publicly of Simon Harris, and it's worth thinking why that is. Partly it is immediate politics, but the other part is something which shows a change in how the UK regards Ireland. Sunak was incredibly brusque. That is certainly different from the UK.

No, you can’t you’re correct

People can move as they want, and without hardline measures like Aus a country just has to accept that

In a way the policy is ‘working’ as intended in that it’s a deterrent and motivates people to leave

Of course wherever people go instead many are going to be annoyed.

I think we need to work out a system without trafficking networks. That will take a huge change though in international law and we’ll probably cycle through some other promises by the EU mostly before then

Immigration is a massive issue and it is only going to get bigger.
I think every country has an ethical obligation to take their fair quota of immigrants ( and process them as quickly as possible).

The issue that Ireland are upset with is that the UK govt are not willing to do this and are letting it fall back on Ireland to clean up their mess.

I actually agree with you. The UK will never accept returns but Ireland at least has to try.

IMO it’s the agreement argument that doesn’t stand up

I can see why people in Ireland are annoyed by extra migrants but I don’t think anything is there in relation to that

The agreement wouldn’t be for mass returns

I think the UK have burned a lot of their bridges with the EU commission and are just not very important to them anymore.

I think if the UK had dealt with things in a better manner this would not be the case for them.

I think there is a bit of self-denial going on if you think that Ireland does not have a problem with accepting immigrants
Don't think poster was talking about its citizens as everywhere there is a very vocal minority who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland. The state however does accept and process their quota of asylum seekers.

Yes, the UK must get what it wants by whatever means possible!!!
This is the problem and one you seem very happy to support and justify!

@Evanna13 - it's just the method of the UK getting what it wants? I don't think that means a support of a policy or anti Irish feeling or some wider rejection beyond what has already occurred, ie Brexit which is politics and now we have some new legalities. Not more than that.

Naturally the UK wants to talk to the decision maker. Who is that? Well it's the EU Commission.

Is that the point the poster is trying to make, I don’t see them as directly supporting ‘unethical policies’, they are factually describing the dynamics of the bigger picture.

I think there is a bit of self-denial going on if you think that Ireland does not have a problem with accepting immigrants, just like other countries unfortunately it does; the riots in Dublin last November over immigration and alarmingly protests last year at a Dublin hospital against foreign nationals, this is the capital city FGS!

I know, it's absoutley ridiculous!

A ferry from Scotland to NI may not require ID.

It does.

You take a passport, driving licence or similar. Scrutiny is a click up from what it used to be because of ‘Protocol’ issues. You don’t necessarily show ID as you are, at least if a car passenger, pre-booked by name, very briefly questioned and counted.

The Stranraer route is a favourite for coaches to Glasgow for shopping or the football.

As said there may well be smuggling by truck. I go to see relatives in NI and border counties of ROI 2 or 3 times a year via Dublin or Belfast (via Wales or Birkenhead more than Stranraer) and work related fly to Dublin a couple of times a year. Never had the car boot checked so could have smuggled all sorts. Generally see searches going on - mostly vans.

What the hell??
There is nothing to forgive Ireland for over Brexit!!!
FFS, the stupidity/foolishness or ignorance of some!!!

Unfortunately you are not making a lot of sense.
The UK and Irish governments do still meet. The UK govt also meets with the EU of Ireland is a part.
Ireland are willing to take their fair share of immigrants and understand their obligation to do so. The UK govt are not and are letting Ireland take the slack.
You seem very happy to support and justify a government with extremely unethical policies. Personally I would not be happy to do so.

I'm embarrassed for you!! You might want to fact check what post!

Quite. And Ireland is also completely at liberty to adopt its own policy. Ultimately the country with no onward processing policy will end up with most of the migrants. Possibly.

Rees Mogg is an idiot. But Harris should have avoided making references to the CTA as if it did something it didn't. Maybe he thought it would be good politics. Instead he has egg on his face because he's got a rude counterpart in No 10 who gave him a direct answer (and didn't do this via a diplomatic channel). All that is left now is for the Irish Government to try and address something they can't really do much about with some cooperation which they've just blown. That's silly and leads to 100 Gardai on a Swiss cheese border.

The agreement probably doesn’t cover anything like this

And so whoever briefed Simon Harris on this needs to be told to brush up on international law, and remember that an arrangement to cooperate on matters is very much in the eye of one party and the finger wagging was probably the stupidest thing that could have been done here.

really what is he supposed to do though. Of course he’s going to ask the UK to uphold their arrangement and criticise the decision not to. Why wouldn’t he? What is the best move for him here? He’s not concerned about how he looks to the wider British public - he’s concerned about his own electorate.

The only person who is acting absolutely embarrassingly here is Reece-Moggs. He couldn’t give a shite about the people of Northern Ireland. He’s disgusting.

@Evanna13 but you are taking to the Commission who have the wider interest. And that is the UK position.

It's not about the average relationship between citizens. Or even governments because the UK wants to discuss with the EU. That is my point. And it will, and yea, the EU may or may not represent an Irish view but it will balance that against all the priorities it has, and it won't care about the CTA. It would point out that Ireland can either maintain its arrangements if it can with the UK, but it's incentive to say it needs to exist is nil.