"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

Of course it impacts behaviour and of course it impacts Ireland.

What's happening now all over Europe is a mess and it's only going to get worse. There needs to be some kind of solution with cooperation from all.

I'm with you. Why is it such an issue for Ireland when we're supposed to just roll over and put up with it?

I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people but as a pp says it's very rarely women and children always young men. And no I'm not racist but I can't see why migrants are complaining about living in old army camps when it is definitely safer than what they say they are escaping.

I can't imagine it will be accepted.

Yes if you meant the deportation rather than returns it is impacting Ireland, as it impacts behaviour. There was a fair bit of talk about how it wouldn’t, but it does. And yes it must feel very annoying, I’d probably feel the same.

The fair share argument is interesting though because it’s really talking about a fair share of trafficking networks, misery, profiteering, crush in boats and men with sticks etc

The only way to stop that is 100% returns, eg Albania recent policy. You could end the 1951 convention and put in place a central allocation centre for all claims where countries took a quota

It would stop trafficking but I’m not sure people really want that kind of set up

It’s a really tiny amount and the EU barely use it, we accepted more than we returned overall

It’s for certain situations and not used much at all. All of the EU are seeing issues even with it in place

But if the UK hadn’t left the Dublin regulation - wouldn’t France have had to accept people who had been fingerprinted in France. I didn’t understand why they left this agreement as it benefited the UK.

Most of Europe are still part of this Dublin agreement which aims to stop multiple claims.

Well it's worth remembering that when the UK was a member of the EU the Dublin Regulations didn't work either. You could never really make a return there either even when the UK was in. You could trace claims better.

But this article made the problem clear. The one refusal system in the EU does not work. It is not enforced. The UK cannot return so it's decided to divert to Rwanda. It will be interesting to see the approach of the ECHR court on that one; even after the UK courts have made their domestic rulings. If it works, it will be copied by many others. If it's rejected, I think the UK will be moving out of the ECHR altogether. I know someone will start saying but what about the GFA. However, that's what I mean about the UK changing. It has already.

I am not talking about returns, I am talking about deportation to Rwanda.
That is why we have this issue in the first place. The UK are not accepting their fair share. They are deporting to Rwanda. That is why Ireland are having this issue.

I don’t think anyone would

Which country would say yes to large scale returns?

Exactly!
Shame the UK govt are not playing game. That is the issue here.

I mean look at this grimness. This father has spent 14 years in EU countries and he has got a no. He tries for the UK and his daughter dies in the journey. I doubt he even knows that there is no way to claim asylum legally in the UK given the method of entry. Where will he go next?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/may/01/father-of-girl-died-channel-family-feared-deported-iraq

No it won’t and there won’t be a hard border. And ultimately as I said, as long as there is poverty and war there will be refugees everywhere including in Ireland whether they come through NI or not.

All of Europe would be better off working together rather than trying to bat them off on each other.

Yes that’s a fair take imo

I would agree with there @mollyfolk because the alternative are a bit grim. Ireland is not going to do some daft goady shit like turning up at the border with buses. Which is at least sane

The pay off is that Simon Harris said some strong words - which is what the electorate want and really all he could do in this case.

Everyone is playing a game here. He’s neatly brought it to the attention that from now on the situation with refugees can be blamed on the UK (apparently). So when people on either side of the debate in Ireland complain about refugees either being here or being in tents, the government can shake their heads and point the finger elsewhere without demonising the refugees themselves.

I don’t think it’s very relevant here as the EU cannot help out in any way wrt what the UK say

Even being within the EU doesn’t mean countries say yes, eg France saying no to Italy

Whether it impacts other stuff maybe but just on this thread I don’t think so

The difference being they don't have to pay to get visa, checks, jump the queue etc - there is nothing fair in that
I think you're missing the point they don't get visas and what queue are they jumping? They've likely paid through the nose to illegal traffickers to get a seat on the boat.

I don't think UK will accept returns either. But Irelands strength within the EU vs UK out of the EU is an issue much greater than this.

Well I am from the UK! Simon Harris has his own way to make. It's just that being given a big diplomatic slap by Rishi Sunak (who is frankly grateful for the attention) is not great. I note all the more punchy articles on this have disappeared in the Irish press and no wonder. The pay off is rubbish presumably and has brought attention to something that nobody actually wanted except perhaps Rishi Sunak. In raising it so loudly, but getting a very rude return, it's certainly different.

I think you are seeing things from a very UK centric perspective.
Simon Harris is new to the job, there is likely to be an election later this year. His first priority is to the Irish electorate. He wants to take a stance on this. How it is viewed in Britian is not his first priority.
This is making headlines in Irish media but I have not seen it among the top stories in the UK.

Ireland don’t have leverage here though

And despite other stuff I still think people are missing that multiple countries are saying no, and all would say no to these returns

The UK government (especially the Tories) were never a friend to Ireland and have thrown Ireland under the bus on numerous occasions.
The difference now is they can't do this so easily anymore because as part of the EU Ireland have more power and the UK govt REALLY do not like this.

You get it. My point is, for the first time I think I doubt it a little. Of course Ireland should keep its cool on this. But unless there is a UK EU compromise, I am a bit skeptical whether it would improve. While it's fair to say the relationship between the UK and Ireland has never been smooth, and actually frankly a lot worse and in much worse circumstances with an actual live conflict going on, it was not so reactive. This is very reactive on immigration and I think that is quite a big difference. If you had said to me 10 years ago that the UK would over write the ECHR in its domestic legislation I would have said no. But it did. It left the EU. I really do think things are in a different order of thinking over here. To say it's unneighbourly is really putting it mildly. It is actually a really different country. We are changing in the UK.

I absolutely agree with you. There has been a fundamental change in how the UK view Ireland. Hopefully things will improve with a new government.