"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

@Finlesswonder and also educate yourself on what the Irish starting emigrating in mass?,... FFS UK education/brainwashing system!!

@Finlesswonder
Ireland is taking its fair share of immigrants. Maybe the UK could consider taking its fair share! Instead of as usual creating drama for everyone else!

Ireland need to look like they are doing something. The electorate would not be happy to see the government sitting back and doing nothing.

But the Rwanda plan won't have a massive long term implication on numbers as its just not feasible to implement.

Immigration will continue to increase in Ireland, as it will in the UK and throughout Europe.

As long as we all deal respectfully with each other we will work it and hopefully the next government in the UK will do so.

As a nation of emigrants, Ireland can and should take more immigrants.

Finlesswonder do you think there should be any limit on the number of immigrants Ireland takes?

@EasternStandard - a direct return will be I think the most uncomfortable thing for Ireland politically - returning an asylum seeker directly to the country of origin after their claim is refused. That seems to be the only route left, lawfully.

But it’s small scale threat only now and it’s re routing people to Ireland

What does your last para refer to, ie direct return?

Not sure what that is

It will be implemented on a very small scale to look like they are doing something.
But financially and logistically its not feasible on a larger scale.
It's all policics from the Tories.

I think the other elephant is the non-vetting issue.

When Blair started this, I remember a gay colleague moving back to his homeland because he was worried that many Eastern European migrants were homophobic, and he feared a change in our culture.

Then there was the issue of destroyed records, or sexual crimes being classified differently in other EE countries (eg rape = sexual misconduct).

Some of those fears, thirty years ago, were founded.

And now it’s an almost exclusively male immigrant profile, totally unvetted, propping up a system of people trafficking, from cultures that do not respect women.

Even one acid attack, rape or murder is too many. But we have seen them.

An Irish woman who said that made her afraid was called a racist.

I think legally it actually has a very interesting effect. And a problematic one for any country trying to return migrants to the UK.

So the scheme is not likely to work or there are legal problems in ECHR terms. However, to make a ruling that the UK is actually a safe country with this legislation in place is a serious question. It is that question that will still prevent a return because a court will say "no". As it did before.

I note a lot of discussion on direct returns in the Irish press. Truthfully that it is a bit of softening up for the reality that if the UK and the rest of the EU do not cooperate, then Ireland will be doing this, and all that comes with it. It is actually what is legally and operationally possibly now.

It’ll be implemented I don’t think that’s in doubt

It’s taken ages to get through stages they’ll keep going

There’s some legal stuff that might happen as in pp but it’ll likely be overridden or ignored in some way

The UK won't implement the Rwanda plan because logistically its too messy and its too expensive for taxpayers.
Rishi wants to look like he's taking a firm hand with immigration to get votes. It's all political.

"We are a small country".
Not this again. It gets wheeled out for anything from football results to racist immigration policies.

As a nation of emigrants, Ireland can and should take more immigrants.

@Evanna13 true, we more than stood up. We are a small country. We need to attend to our own oxygen masks now.

This seems a bit mixed, it’s making this many people reroute it’s already working due to the threat of deportation

People will be understandably annoyed but that small number is already changing behaviour

Basically Ireland are happy to take their fair share of immigrants and are doing so.

But they are unhappy about the high numbers of immigrants coming from the UK due to the threat of deportation to Rwanda.

Ireland want to return some of these to the UK but Rishi said he will not take returns from Ireland until France accept returns from the UK.

This has soured relations between UK and Ireland.

Rishi is talking about it as he can say this is evidence that the Rwanda plan is working and he was hoping this would give the Tories a boost in the elections.

However it is likely a storm in a teacup as the Rwanda plan is unlikely to be implemented in any large scale.

But the issue of asylum seekers in the EU and the UK will continue.

What's the actual issue here?
That ireland doesn't want immigrants?

Do they get pps numbers? Can they work? Without a pps number, how can it be a better life.

Leaving your family behind in poverty a little longer until you can provide well for them when they subsequently come to join you in a richer country - or even stay where they are, but you can regularly send them money to vastly improve their lives - is entirely understandable. If you're fleeing war and in fear for your very life, what kind of a man would cheerfully abandon his wife and children to risk their lives there whilst he himself escapes to safety and prosperity?

i don’t know the particulars on who is coming to the uk, but refugees coming to Europe often come from refugee camps in their neighbouring countries like the Lebanon. They will leave their family in the camp and attempt to go to Europe hoping they can be reunified. The camps may be misery but the journey to Europe is extremely dangerous.

Also, in countries where men take a more public facing role they are simply more likely to be at risk in the case of political turmoil. Like in non fighting parts of Syria at the height of the conflict there, men were being plucked from the streets to join the army - forcing many to leave.

Don't think poster was talking about its citizens as everywhere there is a very vocal minority who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland.

Dulra so if it’s a minority of citizens who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland, does that mean the majority welcome them?

Yes, it does seem to be the elephant in the room with them almost exclusively being young men, with the women, children and elderly people left at home.

If they were economic migrants, it would make a lot of sense for them to send their fit young men first to get financially established, before the rest of the family come over and join them; but then you need to be honest and not claim to be seeking asylum when you clearly are not.

Leaving your family behind in poverty a little longer until you can provide well for them when they subsequently come to join you in a richer country - or even stay where they are, but you can regularly send them money to vastly improve their lives - is entirely understandable. If you're fleeing war and in fear for your very life, what kind of a man would cheerfully abandon his wife and children to risk their lives there whilst he himself escapes to safety and prosperity?

Though I think, for those of us who watch these things, the UK Gov will have imminently rather bigger domestic issues on the Rwanda scheme. Rishi Sunak's small diplomacy win is shortly to melt in the sun like a dropped summer ice cream.

This is a good article summarising the current thinking and policies in the EU. I have to agree with the first paragraph that with aging and declining populations in Europe we may soon be fighting over immigrants

www.reuters.com/breakingviews/eu-is-stuck-with-its-one-trick-refugee-policy-2023-10-09/#:~:text=If%20some%20countries%20don't,internal%20borders%20will%20stay%20open.

I think it was the 0.1 or 1 % thing that people talked about.

But it does re route people

I agree it’s a mess and I can’t see international law changing soon although the June EP elections might see political change

The issue as to compatibility with the ECHR was dodged during the passage of the Bill. The statement that was usually made was not.

I think probably even if the EcHR does provide for an injunction on this power being used I think the UK is going to ignore it. The UK has a pretty good compliance record. But I think the signs are they will just not comply. What happens afterwards will be interesting