"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

The thread is quite long but it’s this recent spike, plus talk of increased crossing over NI border plus returns to U.K. which are current

The Uk deports people all the time - nothing to do with Rwanda. There is no reason to suggest that will change if we have a Labour government.

I think it’s up to Ireland to look at their figures

Pieces of info that stand out include the 80% over the NI border which is below, and that the flow of people has reversed since the agreement was reached

It’s up to Ireland if the narrative is down to recent UK policy or not, as they will know more about how many people and when

I think you may be getting confused. Deportation isn't the same thing as "crazy scheme to send a very tiny number of people to Rwanda to have their claims considered". Labour doesn't endorse the Rwanda plan, it's true - but that is just because it's a stupid, impractical, money-wasting gimmick that won't achieve anything, not because they don't have any plans to deport people.

So you think Rishi is right and people are heading to Ireland via Norm Iron because of his Rwanda fiasco?

I don’t get that argument, deportation is pre GE that’s why the flow has increased in that direction

Well I'm amused that at least @DistinguishedSocialCommentator accepts the Conservatives are likely to lose! After all, on this premise, it would mean migrants are anxiously watching the election outcome. If that really were true, they would have known Rishi Sunak is dead meat electorally and stayed in the UK based on Labour getting in...

Who will they deport?

The pp was presumably talking about the deportation scheme which will end, who do you mean specifically?

No I mean it is utter shite to say "the left-wing Labour lot have no plans to deport anyone"

What do you mean? They won’t stop deportation?

What utter shite.

Thank you @TextureSeeker - I will also continue to judge people as I find them. I am part of a community group that supports refugees and I’ve met lovely people, extraordinary people and horrible people; much like people anywhere. I’ve worked for years with marginalised groups and it’d common to have sweeping generalisations can be applied to them.

I hope there is some vetting. I think this relevation makes one wonder if that is another load of bs not based on data or evidence. This is a bizarre situation where the Irish authorities were informed by the UK authorities about a man convicted of a sex offence. He was on the sex offenders register in the UK. Never mind taking action, the Irish authorities redacted the information on his papers.

Don’t get me wrong, it is the Irish authorities I don’t trust. Maybe Irish chappies thought it was not a problem if it is only women he assaults. It is sober reading.

https://archive.is/XC8f0

On the subject of Ireland taking migrants. I think 20% of people in Ireland were born elsewhere. According to the 2023 Census. Uk has a figure of 14.8%, I think.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpsr/censusofpopulation2022-summaryresults/migrationanddiversity/

I think this is a disingenuous point.

We are talking here about deep-seated pejorative cultural attitudes to women, which in those countries of origin are not only acceptable but enshrined in law.

That is not the case in the west, nor has it been for some (admittedly woefully short) time.

And there are areas of Belgium and Sweden where western women are at best uncomfortable to walk and where sexual attacks have risen by a dizzying number at the same rate as uncontrolled, often illegal, immigration.

I am attempting to draw nuanced distinctions between cultural attitudes to women. These exist.

I am also concerned that women who share their concerns over large numbers of unvetted men appearing in their communities are gagged and dismissed as racists.

It is frightening on many levels to see these worries driven underground.

Are you saying people are being stoned in the UK? Obviously FGM is horrendous but your post just reads like you are throwing it in there to score points.

In Ireland like in the UK I'm sure we have lots of paedophiles, lots of men who have abused the children in their families, the children they have worked with etc. Do you think that every Irish or British man that moves abroad should be shunned in society, that there should be campaigns to keep them out, maybe they should be shipped off to Rwanda because child abuse happens? I mean I'm surprised members of the Catholic church are allowed to travel anywhere at all given all that has happened here.

We aren't in another country though. Nobody is being stoned here and there is no indication at all that that would happen in Ireland

Just like FGM absolutely doesn't happen in the UK, right?

We aren't in another country though. Nobody is being stoned here and there is no indication at all that that would happen in Ireland. Why you are bringing that into the topic of conversation unless to try and scare women is beyond me.

@Finlesswonder I don't have to read up on those things. I lived in one of those places that you mention for a number of years and have family that have lived there for their entire lives. They are all actively anti racist and have been since the 1970s.

I will stick to judging people on how I find them rather than pigeon holing them from the moment they rock up.

The level of privilege and naivety in some of these comments is breathtaking.

I think they have been here about 6 months at this point

Yeah, think that might be the clue right there.

Check back in with us when the community has tripled and its been 6 years.

In case of any doubt, go and read up on Rochdale or Bradford or Molenbeek in Brussels and have a think whether you reckon the men there are letting women walk by without hassle.

I’ve lived many years as both girl and woman in majority Muslim countries. There is seismically very different culture and attitude between the sexes. Many of my Muslim female friends are happy with it. I am not and it’s why I don’t live there.

@mollyfolk you’re right, the demographics are currently different to say UK or Sweden or France, but once they change, you may find things are less comfortable. There are direct correlations between rates of immigration and sexual
crime, by independent health bodies, not just reactionary scaremongering.

I think one person allowed to pass on a path and be able to buy spices is a facile dismissal of women who are beaten or stoned for not covering in other cultures.

In my town we have quite a large group of the 'single male' asylum seekers hoised here that seems to spike everyone's fears. The other day I was out running and met about 15 of them coming towards me on the footpath. There was no footpath on the otherside and it was a reasonably busy road. I have to admit for a minute I did think shit, I don't want to have to make my way through all of these men. The minute they noticed me they all moved into single file and scooted up against the wall to let me pass by. I was astonished, the locals will walk 3 abreast and expect you to go out onto the road if moving over is part of the 'culture' they are bringing I'm here for it.

I think they have been here about 6 months at this point, the only uptick in crime in that time has been a wave of violence associated with a traveller feud. I haven't heard of a single incident of them harassing or causing trouble to anyone. We have recently gotten a new Arab food store though which has spices I couldn't get without travelling 40mins to our nearest city so that's a bonus to me.

Plus it’s all that’s possible within the law anyway atm

I think alternative location can work but it takes a lot. Aus style is huge and they are on it every day.

Politically it’s bipartisan now

The issue imo may be appeals but I can see there was very little room to do much with a threatened ending

I think they’ll do it, as for work I don’t underestimate traffickers and how they sell in get arounds and that is a difference to Aus plus the rest

We can’t direct return though? Only Albania recently

If we could do all countries then that would stop trafficking, but it’s not an option?

Ah but if they don't get rid of it, but they keep the bar in place, and make direct returns, you need never send anyone to Rwanda. I think it's likely that that part as to safety is untested in law. It may not be sound.

Don't get me wrong, for political optics this current government must try to do this. But it would not surprise me if they are totally unsuccessful.

It is the bar to asylum claims I think matters long term. If you can never claim in the UK by this route (and there is some respectable legal argument on that) then I think that will stay.

I have serious doubts on Rwanda working at all.