"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

The guy was good as finally weight was given to the financial backing and strength of trafficking networks, and how foolish it is to think that if you pluck off the guy at the bottom on the beach with a stick there isn’t an endless supply of people ready to step in and work for those who are untouchable.

imo this huge trade is down to the 1951 convention, and overturning that is the only way if people want to stop network trafficking. I’m not sure if people will ask for that, not yet, but maybe as the issue grows, as it will due to climate pressure

To add - Aus is pretty close to stopping it but it takes a lot

Except it is not completely true. The EU proposed to temporarily trigger a clause to stop vaccines being exported from Ireland into Northern Ireland. This was shot down immediately by Ireland, the UK and all the northern Irish parties.

And Ireland is not proposing a border now at all, in any sense.

Nobody wants a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, nobody has proposed one.

Ireland should work with U.K. because ultimately the English Channel route from France is where many of the asylum seekers in Ireland will come from.
U.K. is the land route to Ireland.

but up to Ireland ultimately I guess

This is completely untrue and absoutley ridiculous. Ireland never has and never will impose a hard border.
Having Gardai checking asylum seekers is in no way a hard border.
The CTA applies to Irish and UK residents only.
Ireland have always acted in good faith and unfortunately NI and Ireland were lied to on numerous occasions by the UK govt during Brexit. Brexit is not something Ireland wanted or had any say in and it has been hugely detrimental to the Irish economy. Having to deal with a UK govt who lied and who seemed to have no knowledge or interest in keeping the peace in NI or in Good Friday agreement was difficult to say the least.

I think Ireland are in denial about this new reality and blaming England is foolish.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border, help pay the costs of policing that and help with EU returns agreements.
The Irish need to offer something like we have to offer the French ( money and expertise)
The UK are working with France and have an agreement with them on policing the channel.
UK and France finalised a joint-multimillion-euro agreement to stop people from crossing the channel. The new UK asylum bill passed to the second reading with the majority of conservative MPs voting in favor despite critique from all sides.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border Why? We have no jurisdiction there

Ireland are trying to do the same between UK and Ireland but UK are not cooperating and are pretty pleased by all accounts that asylum seekers are using the route through Northern Ireland to get to Ireland. So everything they criticised France for they are doing to Ireland. I don't think Ireland have any issue working collaboratively with the UK on this but the UK won't work with them on it.

I heard that interview on Today programme too. First time I have had openly discussed the chain throughout Europe , really the U.K. is the end of the chain , now it’s possibly Ireland.
but the Irish saying they don’t want to be responsible for U.K. migration mess well that is exactly how we feel about Europe and the Schengen zone.
the family of the little girl that died were Iraqi and had failed claims in 4 different countries, Sweden, Belgium, Finland and one other so were trying to get to U.K. to try there.

i think Ireland are in denial about this new reality and blaming England is foolish.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border, help pay the costs of policing that and help with EU returns agreements.
The Irish need to offer something like we have to offer the French ( money and expertise)

It’s funny how Ireland and the EU bleated on during the Brexit negotiations about how there cannot under any circumstances be a physical border between the North and the Republic, yet a physical border has been proposed on two occasions since Brexit; once by the EU (over Covid vaccines) and now by Ireland over asylum seekers.
No it wasn't, a physical border was never proposed! Ireland wanted to work with Northern Ireland Assembly to come up with common rules but that was turned down. There were checkpoints all over Ireland checking where people were travelling to during covid same as for people travelling from the North. Again they are not proposing a physical border now fgs. Have you ever "seen" the border between Ireland and the North? you would have difficulty because there isn't one.

Ireland is now considering lining the border with police, checking anyone entering to see if there are any asylum seekers. - that is not a hard border! But what about the GFA? What about the Northern Ireland Protocol? So we’re being asked to believe a border is bad if it’s proposed by the UK, even though the UK never proposed one, and good if it’s proposed by Ireland, which now has. - and again no border has been proposed or will ever be proposed

Very good person on R4 talking about human trafficking networks and how organised, financially backed and mafia like they are

They are impossible to get to and massive

Says don’t use ‘people smugglers’ think about huge chains of organised people trafficking

People at the bottom won’t even know the people at the top

Definitely the lesson is be careful what you wish for; the arrangements have to last a long time, asking for something when you have little to give by return is a fool's errand and the CTA is an understanding. I don't think much of Rishi Sunak but whoever briefed Harris did a bad job. He's got very little traction, and allowed Sunak to make himself look better in the eyes of the voters he wants to covet. Given how unpopular Sunak is that is pretty impressive. Harris will now be mithered by his political opponents for evidence of this arrangement which he will never be able to produce for diplomatic reasons.

Saw someone else post this and have to agree, it is very true:

It’s funny how Ireland and the EU bleated on during the Brexit negotiations about how there cannot under any circumstances be a physical border between the North and the Republic, yet a physical border has been proposed on two occasions since Brexit; once by the EU (over Covid vaccines) and now by Ireland over asylum seekers.

This underlines the fact that the threat to peace in Northern Ireland never came from the UK, but from Ireland itself and the EU. It was always said our negotiating stance during the Brexit negotiations should have been “we’re not going to create a hard border, what you do on your side, is not our problem to solve”. Yet for some bizarre reason, Theresa May saw fit to get us entangled in the legal mess that is the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Ireland is now considering lining the border with police, checking anyone entering to see if there are any asylum seekers. But what about the GFA? What about the Northern Ireland Protocol? So we’re being asked to believe a border is bad if it’s proposed by the UK, even though the UK never proposed one, and good if it’s proposed by Ireland, which now has.

What’s even more amusing is that the Irish courts have stated that the UK is not a safe country to deport asylum seekers to because the UK might deport them to Rwanda. Plus, the UK has told the Irish that they won’t accept asylum seekers back from Ireland until the UK can send them back to France.

Moral of this story? Careful what you wish for. If your entire raison d’etre in life is to tie other people in knots, be ready for what happens when your own logic gets turned around and applied to you.

As Angela Rayner and the Irish government are now discovering very quickly.

Some strong news headlines this morning with the background of those in the crush and Columbia arrests

Listening to the story related to this thread 14 times asylum was rejected, I keep hearing on here the Dublin convention means people can be returned, it’s not the case for nearly all

Failed asylum seekers in rest of EU come to U.K. all the time though. The man that killed an elderly man last year was a failed asylum seeker from Germany I think so from the U.K. pov we would want to be able to send back probably thousands of asylum seekers back to the EU.
reports this morning that the little girl that died on the boat in France was born in Sweden and her family were failed asylum seekers from there.
it’s abEurope wide issue which is now hitting Ireland but the rest of us are familiar with.

'The boat people' 🙄 Your humanity is really shining through there OP.

So could any other country the migrants end up in, by that 'logic' - but that's not going to happen. If allowed into the UK, the UK has a duty toward them.

Turning a blind eye to onward travel across a land border is a distinctly unneighbourly act.

There's a part of me that suspects letting the migrants to NI and into Ireland is part of a plan to make the Irish government consider closing the border.

LOL.

I don't know too much about Simon Harris but it is all mouth and no trousers. Who knows what Labour will do. I think they might be less directly rude, but as for returns, well, they might not take a dissimilar view to Sunak because of French recalcitrance. It may suit them just as well in practice.

Let us hope for less handbagging and silly press releases, whether by accident or design.

Yes I think it will all blow over with a new government. The government here are only delighted to be able to blame the Tory government. They can point a fingers at someone without pointing it at asylum seekers!

He’s some cheeky fecker though, gloating that failed asylum seekers going to Ireland means the Rwanda plan has worked, admitting there is an operational agreement in place and saying that they won’t be honouring and then not even meeting with the Irish government.

it’s not very neighbourly.

Let’s hope the next crowd improve Irish/British relations.

Yes, agree with you on this.

Btw obviously Ireland should keep cool. The chances are it will be dealing with a different PM in the next six months anyway

A ferry from Scotland to NI may not require ID. But equally hiding in a lorry on ferry is not much of a stretch from Stranraer to Belfast.

I’m curious. Help me out if I have missed the answer. How are those seeking asylum getting to NI, to then allegedly make their way to Dublin?

I assume they enter the UK via Kent, or nearby. Getting to NI requires crossing another body of water. Ferry requires ID, as does a flight.

Or is the UK Govt. relocating them to spread them around?

Well. The issue is a basic one. The CTA is not a binding piece of international law. It is not a treaty. It is an understanding between the UK and Ireland. It thus a pretty fragile thing though in its favour it has survived longer than any British PM or a UK government.