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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think he should have a responsible adult?

39 replies

WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 13:10

An incident happened at my family member's supported accomodation involving him being assaulted by a staff member.

Police are coming today and his house are telling him he can't have a family member with him it needs to be a staff member and it is a private matter. He has LD and serious mental illness and is very easily lead.

I don't think this is right and want to be with him. Help!

OP posts:
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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 01/05/2024 08:37

Ineffable23 · 30/04/2024 18:11

I think it needs reporting as a safeguarding concern to the council. He's a vulnerable adult and it's clear that an adult in authority is attempting to manipulate the situation. You are protecting him but that doesn't stop it being a risk.

Yes, I will report it.

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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 01/05/2024 08:36

And no, there are no registered professionals. We are just looking to speed up him leaving there now. The idea was always to eventually transition to a supported flat. The trouble is they are harder to come by. But I'll be pushing for that to be moved forward.

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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 01/05/2024 08:33

TraitorsGate · 30/04/2024 17:28

That's great he got to speak with the police. I don't know if the home will tell you the outcome of any disciplinary, is it a council run house or private. Who did the other complaint go to, adult safeguarding, cqc and the police need to be aware of any assault. It might be better not to have any discussions with other members of staff, stories change or get mixed up. If any of the staff are registered professionals like social worker or nurse you can report them to their governing bodies. If nothing changes would you consider moving to a different house.

It's private. The last complaint went to the manager of the house. I've informed CQC, the assault has been reported to the police. I'm going to ring adult social care and his CPN today.

OP posts:
Ineffable23 · 30/04/2024 18:11

I think it needs reporting as a safeguarding concern to the council. He's a vulnerable adult and it's clear that an adult in authority is attempting to manipulate the situation. You are protecting him but that doesn't stop it being a risk.

TraitorsGate · 30/04/2024 17:28

That's great he got to speak with the police. I don't know if the home will tell you the outcome of any disciplinary, is it a council run house or private. Who did the other complaint go to, adult safeguarding, cqc and the police need to be aware of any assault. It might be better not to have any discussions with other members of staff, stories change or get mixed up. If any of the staff are registered professionals like social worker or nurse you can report them to their governing bodies. If nothing changes would you consider moving to a different house.

crockofshite · 29/04/2024 21:52

Dacadactyl · 28/04/2024 14:26

I'd get onto the CQC too and report this incident.

Yes, was just about to say CQC.

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 29/04/2024 21:40

Dacadactyl · 29/04/2024 21:36

Have you reported the incident to Adult Social Care at your local authority? I know you said you spoke to them out of hours, but I'd be ringing your relative's social worker tomorrow (and emailing them also) and ask what they're planning on doing about it.

I'm presuming they have placed your relative there.

Edited

No, I haven't actually reported the incident to them but yes, I need to do that and report the previous incident too. He doesn't have a social worker. His placement is paid for by the council, though.

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Dacadactyl · 29/04/2024 21:36

Have you reported the incident to Adult Social Care at your local authority? I know you said you spoke to them out of hours, but I'd be ringing your relative's social worker tomorrow (and emailing them also) and ask what they're planning on doing about it.

I'm presuming they have placed your relative there.

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 29/04/2024 21:34

UPDATE
I just wanted to give an update. After I spoke to the police yesterday to arrange for my family member to see them at the station the manager interfered again and arranged for them to come to the house and again told my family member the police had said he couldn't have his next of kin present and had to have staff members there. He phoned me up in a panic about it but believing every word of the manager! So I had to rearrange to take him to the station this afternoon so that the manager had no more chance to try and coerce him, which was really inconvenient to me. I am so angry! My family member has given his statement which was witnessed by me. The police officer has said he will talk to the staff member next and see if any other residents are willing to give a statement. He did warn us often people don't want to. He told me to keep all my notes as he may need to speak to me again.

Now I need to plan my next move. Exhausted with it already (just recovering from a nasty illness - I need this right now like a hole in the head.) I want to completely bypass the manager and staff if possible. There is a number for 'general enquires' on the website so I thought I'd ring that. But I need to plan what to say - so much going around in my head!

  1. There is the previous formal complaint from 3 months ago that I've had no response to (same member of staff)
  2. There is the complaint for the assault.
  3. Then the complaint against the manager and 1 staff member for coercion/lying.
  4. I'd like a meeting asap to reassure my family member that the staff member will not be working at his house again (the police officer told us he has now been suspended but he doesn't know for how long.) Family member then told the police (he'd not told me this) that the staff member was due to come back into work the next night and only didn't because he told another member of staff how uncomfortable he felt and that member of staff volunteered to stay for the night.

I also want to let his CPN know what has happened. Anything else I should be doing? I just want to get this right for him as it's so unfair. I did speak to one of the decent members of staff (which is most of them) about him moving on from there and he was very helpful.

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Confusedmeanderings · 28/04/2024 22:55

If the police say that you can't be with your family member due to you being a witness, it is definitely worth asking about their appropriate adult service. As a PP said, the service is really for vulnerable adults or young people being accused of a crime, but they do sometimes blur the boundaries a bit. I volunteer as an appropriate adult and I was once asked if I would be with a vulnerable adult victim for similar reasons. I was happy to do it.

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 22:00

TraitorsGate · 28/04/2024 19:18

I'm not sure if the appropriate adult service supports victims, to be sure I would ring the custody officer and victim support for their advice on who can support him during his interview, is there cctv at the home

Ok, I'll make sure to ask about that. No there isn't CCTV.

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TraitorsGate · 28/04/2024 19:18

I'm not sure if the appropriate adult service supports victims, to be sure I would ring the custody officer and victim support for their advice on who can support him during his interview, is there cctv at the home

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 18:57

NeedToChangeName · 28/04/2024 18:36

I'd assume you can't be the appropriate adult to support him during interview, as you're also a witness

But, it shouldn't be staff, as in this instance, they're not impartial

If I can't be the appropriate adult, that's fine. I will tell them when they ring that I was a witness.

Do they have people available to be the appropriate adult? As we don't really have anyone else in the family to do it.

I'm not sure exactly how many residents witnessed the incident. But my family member said one of the other men saw the staff member threatening him with a broom. I didn't know that actually happened as obviously I couldn't see and he dropped his phone and it went dead when this happened. I phoned the police but they wouldn't do anything as I didn't actually know if anyone had got hurt 😞

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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 18:50

teatimeplease · 28/04/2024 18:33

You're doing the right thing taking him to the station instead, it can be completely unbiased then. Please tell the officers how concerned you are about the manager, they should be making safeguarding referrals just off the back of the incident but if you tell them everything from previous, they can add that on too.

Oh really? I'll speak to them about that when they ring.

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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 18:49

TraitorsGate · 28/04/2024 18:30

You can report the manager to adult social services,

Yes, I think I'm going to have to.

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NeedToChangeName · 28/04/2024 18:36

I'd assume you can't be the appropriate adult to support him during interview, as you're also a witness

But, it shouldn't be staff, as in this instance, they're not impartial

teatimeplease · 28/04/2024 18:33

You're doing the right thing taking him to the station instead, it can be completely unbiased then. Please tell the officers how concerned you are about the manager, they should be making safeguarding referrals just off the back of the incident but if you tell them everything from previous, they can add that on too.

TraitorsGate · 28/04/2024 18:30

You can report the manager to adult social services,

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 18:25

Igmum · 28/04/2024 16:23

I think it is very sensible to ask for the Police to interview your relative out of the home where it happened. In your place i would be worried that they are either going to put pressure on him or simply embarrass him out of making the accusation. I would also be reporting this to the CQC and anyone else I could think of.

So sorry this happened to them and good luck.

Thank you

Yes, this is exactly it. He is very easily lead/presurised. After the last incident the staff member convinced my family member I was 'making a fuss over nothing.' He wanted me to withdraw my complaint. I had to spend a lot of time explaining to him why I wasn't going to withdraw the complaint.

This time the manager told him I couldn't be present for the interview and a staff member had to be with him. He always thinks he has to do exactly what the manager says. I have to remind him that he doesn't and explain why it is a conflict of interest. I'd explained all this yesterday and then he had them in his ear again this morning and I had to deal with it all again. He also worries if he complains they will kick him out which he doesn't want as he likes it there. He gets on well with the other residents and most of the staff are really nice. Residents and staff both dislike this manager.

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Igmum · 28/04/2024 16:23

I think it is very sensible to ask for the Police to interview your relative out of the home where it happened. In your place i would be worried that they are either going to put pressure on him or simply embarrass him out of making the accusation. I would also be reporting this to the CQC and anyone else I could think of.

So sorry this happened to them and good luck.

Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 15:29

There are 2 members of staff here. One has told me she would do exactly the same as me. The other seems to have taken it very personally. She stormed out when I explained what we were going to do. Then came back and said I was making other residents feel uncomfortable and upsetting my family member. I have only spoken about it to my family member in private and to the staff in private. The next thing the staff member had obviously reported back to the manager because she came in while I was still speaking to the other staff member and told her the manager said they had to do a 'handover'!

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Original poster
WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 14:50

Elleherd · 28/04/2024 14:45

They cant if he's being accused of something. Sadly being a witness - which is what a victim of crime is, is somewhat different, though you'd hope the police would want him to have someone with him.

I think it would be a good idea to get him to a police station to make a complaint of a crime against him, but it may need to be someone other than you in the interview with him, if you were a witness on the phone when the assault took place. That bit will be the police's call. Very good luck.

(I had to take action after seeing an elderly resident in a sheltered scheme punched and shoved into his flat by the scheme manager. Some people are the lowest of the low.)

Show quote history

I am worried that the house are going to try and turn it around onto him doing something wrong as he got upset with the staff member goading and laughing at him.

I have spoken to the police now and they are going to get back to me to arrange for him to go into the station.

I don't mind not being in the interview as long as someone is that isn't a member of staff at the house. Obviously I want to give a statement too.

OP posts:
Elleherd · 28/04/2024 14:45

WatermelonWaveclub · 28/04/2024 13:43

But surely the police can't interview him without someone present?

Show quote history

They cant if he's being accused of something. Sadly being a witness - which is what a victim of crime is, is somewhat different, though you'd hope the police would want him to have someone with him.

I think it would be a good idea to get him to a police station to make a complaint of a crime against him, but it may need to be someone other than you in the interview with him, if you were a witness on the phone when the assault took place. That bit will be the police's call. Very good luck.

(I had to take action after seeing an elderly resident in a sheltered scheme punched and shoved into his flat by the scheme manager. Some people are the lowest of the low.)

Dacadactyl · 28/04/2024 14:26

I'd get onto the CQC too and report this incident.

BlankTimes · 28/04/2024 14:10

With reference to your previous post and this from upthread,

"A private company runs the house. The manager is awful and tries to sweep everything under the carpet. I have already raised a complaint against this employee that has completely been ignored."

I am so pleased you are advocating for your family member, YOU ARE RIGHT, carry on doing what you are doing and as soon as this dreadful situation is over, please find a more caring and compassionate place for him/her to live.

Then when he/she is safe, report this place to anyone who can swoop in and find out the truth and take action.