To ask what is really so bad about a teaching career compared to other jobs? Does anyone actually enjoy it?

People don't want to be teachers because it gets slated continuously by the press, by the government, by parents, by teachers. I flipping love my job. I love my department. We have excellent fun.

No, people don't want to be teachers because they know the workload is unreasonable, behaviour in a lot of schools is horrific, Ofsted and general scrutiny are stressful and counter-productive, the curriculum is inaccessible to quite a lot of kids, teachers feel unsupported by SLT, schools are underfunded, AND teachers are slated by all and sundry.

I love my time in the classroom and I enjoy preparing lessons. Working with children is a fab privilege because you get to see what makes them spark and help to nurture it. Plus no two days are ever the same. It's not a job where you click watch. The holidays are also fab and one of the reasons why I've remained in the education sector.

I think all jobs have their plus and negative points but teachers are notorious for complaining about their job and I'm no exception.

IMO in recent years I've felt the squeeze in terms of lack of funding for all of the other areas that work with children; social work, sure start, alternative provision, cahms, hint, salt, Ed psych etc. Schools just have to continue to absorb the impact and I think this is the year it seems to have hit a tipping point where I feel too many children are being failed and without more funding I don't see it ending.

I think inclusion is great as a goal to aim for, but what a lot of people don't understand is inclusion isn't just putting all children regardless of their needs into a mainstream school together so they can all be friends and learn alongside each other. It's only successful and beneficial to all children if the appropriate support is in place. Otherwise you're just setting children up to fail.

I also get sick of successive education secretaries trying to reinvent the wheel and having different priorities seemingly on a whim. So many times now I've heard this amazing new thing that is going to transform how children learn and we have to follow it blindly when anyone who spends any amount of time with kids knows that children learn in lots of different ways. There isn't a single one size fits all way of teaching anything.

Ofsted are not fit for purpose. Everybody is in favour of a system of accountability but this is not it. Inspectors are very poorly trained and almost always forget that you're not supposed to show preferences for certain methods or programmes.

The primary curriculum is crap. It was rejigged a decade ago and it could've really reflected what children these days need to learn to be successful. Instead they just moved some elements of the secondary curriculum down to primary and changed the name of the levels. There's some really interesting and intelligent people pushing for meaningful change with lots of evidence to back up their ideas but their ideas seem to be really misrepresented in the press who are incredibly resistant to curriculum change and I don't know why.

Setting and marking homework is a waste of time. It has no benefit at all and gets in the way of things which are actually proven to be useful (except reading- reading is beneficial).

Every teacher I know hates rewarding 100% attendance because it's unfair and thinks fines for holidays in term time are awful because many children would never go on holiday if that had to stick to school holidays - it's a fine that just perpetuates an existing inequality.

TLDR - working with children is amazing but there's a lot of bullshit and politics around the job which can make aspects of it unenjoyable.

I love it but I will swear at the next person that cites "13 weeks holiday" as a massive perk. The pro-rata salary really chips into take home pay and what do people really expect us to do with 13 weeks holiday? The term is so intense, that by the time I've recovered, done the jobs that need to be done at home (because there is no time to do stuff during term time), it's time to go back to school again.

I love my job and thrive in busy environments and intense situations, so it's perfect for me. It's not for everyone though.

I work 0.8 as a secondary teacher

I like working with students but I hate the politics and bureaucracy

It's easy to get burnout, it can be a tiring never ending job

Bullying and harassment are ways of managing people out are all to common, usually though lesson observations

The appraisal/observation process is entirely subjective and someone can say I'm inadequate and another outstanding and that's it! No comeback.

Holidays are fine but I'm almost always burnt out and fill it with appointments as you can't do them easily during the term. You can't take an hour for a physio or work your lunch to go to the dentist. You can't going out for dinner and drinks and have an easy day the next day.

But I work with some lovely people! 90% of the student are amazing and polite and work really hard. My colleagues are the bomb. We have such a laugh all the time.

If you are sick, you have to set work. So it's easier to go in.

You are set target for each student to get and if you don't meet them you have to explain why. Sometimes this will trigger observations as above.

My school is ok for the not doing observations. Some schools use them to persecute people.

PT signifies Scotland. They negotiated a better pay rise!

That's assistant - deputy head of a reasonably large secondary school in England...

PT?

I really enjoy my job!
41 years and counting!
I like my subject, History, and I like young people. I have some great classes, some are quite hard work but I enjoy it. I've always taught in big city non selective state schools. By and large ok, I've learned to tune out the crap from some SLT and some parents.
Mostly it's enjoyable, although tiring. I think working with teenagers is brilliant and it keeps me young!

People don't want to be teachers because it gets slated continuously by the press, by the government, by parents, by teachers. I flipping love my job. I love my department. We have excellent fun.

I'm a PT of 2 subjects. I make £67000. I never work past 5, or before 8, or weekends or holidays. Honestly, have a hard line. You'll notice you'd don't need to.

Also, you'll have to direct me to the other jobs with the 13 weeks off.

Yep, that must be why people are flocking to sign up to be teachers. Oh hang on...

Wholeheartedly agree!

Plus as a fully qualified teacher with leadership responsibility I’m about 8 grand short of that total. I’m on the highest band I can be paid with a bit extra for my responsibility, and I don’t even earn close to nearly 49k! My partner who does management work with no degree and has worked his way up from the shop floor earns 50k+…doesn’t do half as much work at evenings and weekends! And yes…it’s or rata!

@Drearydiedre - not in my school. Sometimes we agree to do observations as a Dept once a year - for interest as much as anything else. Sometimes there are students in lessons on their PGCE. I’ve been at my current school 19 years and, including three inspections and appraisals, have been seen 10 times, if that.

We aren’t paid for the holidays. It’s pro rata. Saying that we are really well paid and then saying that your pay is in the 95th centile for doing something way less stressful, with much more flexibility etc doesn’t really help prove your point.

It's difficult - and I think it depends on why you want to teach. I teach secondary because I love my subject, whereas my sister teaches primary as she loves children.

I love teaching. What I don't love is teenagers being rude, receiving death threats from students, paperwork and bureaucracy around data, long parents evenings with no breaks, unnecessary marking and workload, kids not able to sit still or be quiet for 5 minutes, and then be told it's not their fault. Unsupportive/bullying management have been an issue in previous schools too.

We're losing staff, and they're not being replaced because of budgets, which puts more pressure on existing staff. We're just surviving at this point, not teaching.

If you are pragmatic and hard working enough to be in finance AND care about the kids then it should be a good idea but I'd volunteer in a school first. Teaching is a particular skill set which I as a finance person don't have but it's not to say you don't have what it takes.

In terms of the job I've always preferred my well paid very hard work of a finance career. I dont mind the long hours and high pressure for better salary. I don't think Teaching is uniquely hard but there's a lot of moaning in the profession. Everyone hates the paperwork. Guess which bit of my job I hate?!

I see Teachers leaving school at about 5.15 (not many, most are gone by then) on the days I collect from after school club. They've usually been there since 8 ish as the staff car park starts to fill up when I'm dropping DC. As many finance people will tell you, 8-5.15 even with a couple of hours later in the evening would be a sweet deal.

I understand teaching pensions aren't as good as they used to be but as the private sector is SHIT then it's a neutral factor.

Holidays are a big plus. If you have DC then can only go away then anyway so the timing isn't a big problem for many mums. It's just that you will be stuck to school holidays even in later life.

It's so tiring. So much pressure to get sometimes very young children to perform at very high expectations. Huge amounts expected from teachers to support children with a vast array of different needs, including severe ones that we have no training for. I'm exhausted after being around 30 small children for 6.5 hours, then I have hours more work to do after that.

This is the crux of it. MATs tend to be the worst. The old style Head who treats staff and pupils as individuals is the best but rapidly a dying breed. Children are almost treated as units of production now.

I love teaching, but finding the right school is VERY important. If SLT are supportive, you can cope with most of the other crap that gets thrown at you.

Dear God, that stuff would wear you down rapidly!
Then somebody somewhere decides it’s all balls and there is another pointless, time consuming new initiative..
I loved teaching in a private school which ignored a lot if this claptrap and let you get in with teaching.
Now retired and having great fun tutoring some delightful teenagers.

Teaching pretty much precludes you from all high paying jobs no matter how talented or committed you are. Being just above median UK salary doesn’t get you far these days.

It’s OK when you’re young but how do you achieve the really big salaries later on in your career? It’s impossible.

With regards to time off while I appreciate it would appeal to some, longer holidays with inflexible dates would be no use to me. I prefer to have half the holidays but taken at times of my choice not mandated. For example I enjoy attending a lot of global sporting events as part of my holidays. If I was told I couldn’t attend certain ones because they were in the school term times that really wouldn’t work for me and I’d feel excluded from my social circle at times.

I would also not be keen on being rigidly attached to one place of work having no day to day flexibility to do more one day and less another.

Its a good job others think differently otherwise we’d all have to home school!

See this, I disagree. A fully qualified teacher in Scotland makes £48516, median UK salary is about £33000. Yeah, that isn't appalling. My salary is 95th percentile in the UK as a PT.

Also, you'll have to direct me to the other jobs with the 13 weeks off.

Teach in Scotland. Head of department of 10, made up of 2 different subjects. Not a high performing school, challenging area with challenging kids, smaller budgets every year, increasing SEN kids.
I love it. Best job I ever had. 13 weeks holiday. Actual holidays. Maybe I do 1 or 2 days in the summer to tidy up. That's it. Out of the door by 5, in at 8ish. Lunch time clubs every day but it's great because the kids love it and they want to be there.
Colleagues who turned down easy promotions because our department was too much fun. Fun is the key. Make more fun.
The biggest issue in teaching is the professional teachers who've only ever been teachers, it's all so pressured for them. The difference from my last career to this is stark.
BTW, our pupils generally do great, good results, fun courses, minimal behaviour issues.
Helps to be a nice person to the kids. You can spot the ones who hate the kids a mile off.

It's because everyone thinks they can do the job (and do it well), but it takes a very specific skill set and personality to be good at the job and enjoy it.

Kids in my classes generally do very well and I am told by TAs that most of my sets behave better for me than they do for others, despite my autistic tendencies, which make interpersonal skills much harder for me.

But here is what you need, and why many of my younger colleagues flag:
-excellent interpersonal skills
-strong boundaries
-a very thick skin
-military discipline
-military organisational skills
-knowledge of who really runs the school (it's rarely the head)
-excellent IT skills
-a keen interest in your subject
-a working knowledge of the world of those who teach
-the ability to unabashedly beg, borrow and steal

If you lack one of the above, your life will be harder. Lack three or more and the job becomes almost impossible to do well.

Teaching is a great job for those who have the right skill set. I still enjoy it after 20 years and rarely get refused a position I set my eyes on (from middle management to senior leadership, I can freely step up and down as my private life demands).

It fits in well with my family life and enables me to still enjoy my children due to free weekends and holidays. But I wouldn't recommend it to many people.

The pay is appalling and there is minimal flexibility with time off.

I suppose it might be OK as a second salary in a household but not much in the way of career progression no matter how skilled you are. Head teachers barely make 100k. Anyone who is committed to reaching that level would be able to make multiples of that salary in a private sector role if they showed similar levels of commitment.

If you genuinely enjoy teaching then salary may not matter too much but from a personal economic point of view it makes no sense as a career.

On maternity atm and going back. Been teaching primary around 13 years now. I’m SLT as well and deputy head.

Yes as I referred to in my original post- I absolutely adapt planning - it’s child led. But it doesn’t take me that long. I go round in lessons and gage if they understand and look at marking and if they haven’t got it we redo. It doesn’t take me long to fill paper work in and who is the paperwork for? It’s not for me, it’s not for ofsted , and I can write a small comment down and redo the lesson using different methods. . I tell my students who I train to not get bogged down with paper work and to go and teach! Same with interventions- how long does it take me to plan that my children need to use numicon etc … minutes . I write it down on their IEPs and update regularly. I don’t see it as particularly timely and it’s ongoing so it’s done so regularly it doesn’t take much time at all. Marking- I find the highlighting and all the silly abbreviations pointless and numerous comments mad! - oral feedback and corrections done with myself or TA is much more beneficial, less time consuming and is actually helpful. I think I also plan less work. Less is more I feel so I can give the children the time to really understand the core principles.

I appreciate if you don’t have TAs it makes it far more harder. I use mine like they are teachers - they are the same as me and the children call them teachers. My TAs are my good friends - we bounce of each other and share ideas.

I just think teaching gets really negative press but I think it depends on your HT and SLT. The paperwork was ridiculous ( a few years ago) but it was led from the top, ofsted dont need to see reams of it or stressed teachers . If you can sit in front of ofsted or in your pupil progress meetings really know your children then you’re doing great . They need happy , energetic teachers who can teach . Let the paperwork come second ! And those displays… don’t need to be a masterpiece, it’s time to simplify teaching Again and enjoy it