AIBU to think a potential 2% pay rise for the NHS staff is ridiculous?

We couldn’t cope without our band 2s but honestly I wouldn’t blame them for leaving. I couldn’t/wouldn’t do it. I don’t think many people would.

Without band 2s many teams will fall apart, they honestly don’t get enough credit.

Most of ours stay because that’s all they’ve ever known, it’s all that’s available to them locally and through fear of it’s that or nothing. They also love their job and take pride in what they do.

This is exactly why staff feel put out. Because we aren't all in it together.

We stay because we belive in public services.

I'm a band 2 on a complex geriatric ward - I do observations (BP, temp etc) basic wound care as well as personal care, repositioning, feeding etc we also have to record all of this on the (electronic) patients notes.

The nurses and drs don't spend enough time with the patients to know what is normal for them, or whether they are deteriorating - that's on us to alert medical staff.

The job is emotionally draining and physically demanding. Our patients generally have some type of cognitive impairment, confusion or safeguarding issues, some are end of life. It's a fraught environment with the patients requiring constant supervision.

To become band 3 I need to become competent in, venepuncture (taking blood)bladder scans and ECG's which I hope to do later this year.

People assume it's just wiping bums at band 2 - it's much more than that, we have a lot of responsibility.

I agree with all of the NHS posters before. It absolutely should be more and band 2s are worth their wage and significantly more.

Because of paperwork and red tape I would say band 2s do so much patient care and are pretty much the front door for any deterioration ect.

I'm now part of the group which would be paid 8k more if I worked in Scotland or about 10k plus going private. Options for progression are extremely limited (only 1 position above my banding in my hospital for the role I'm in, similar around the country) and again only really with a masters (which I can't afford to do part time hours with current wage and 3 children).

I also personally don't know anyone who voted 'yes' to the pay deal last time so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

I have gone from band 2 to a 5 and am now looking at a 6. Non clinical role too

Reasons for working for NHS Vs private sector

1. Pension

1. Sick pay, you can pretty much have the 6 months off and not worry

1. Maternity. Most people have a year off no questions asked. Yes only full pay for 8 weeks, then half pay, but your job will be there when you come back absolutely no question.

1. Flexibility..if you ask to go part time, it's extremely likely you will be allowed. They are very family friendly and will accommodate most requests.

1. Opportunity. There are always other roles coming up. If you already work for the NHS you have a foot in. I've known people come in as a band 2 and progress to band 5 through promotions and apprentice schemes etc.

1. Funded training courses. See above. Plenty of opportunities for additional training, paid for.

1. Job satisfaction. Yep it's bloody hard work absolutely. But on days where you've helped lots of people in need, you've achieved something worthwhile.

I could do a post with all the points AGAINST it too but that wouldn't be as long.

You are assuming that people applying are thinking about pensions. We can’t hire band 2s at the moment. They can get better pay doing unskilled jobs elsewhere. So where we used to get 20+ applicants for a job we’re now lucky if we get one or two. Luckier still if those are actually employable.

Also in private sector and my employer has done below inflation pay rises for the last few years too and are not a small company ☹️

How do the overall gross pay, working conditions, stress and responsibility compare?

we have lost so many nurses, nothing to do with pay, more towards with the disappointment in the job - changes bought about by covid and kept up by management, who will not listen
they are still nursing, but elsewhere

I work in the private sector and 2% pay rises are pretty standard where I am. We dont get the pension perks or the publicity either.

While I don't know what you've been through, and won't begin to argue that all HCPs are angels etc, can you see how a bad experience with the NHS over the past couple of years could be linked to understaffing, lack of retention of good nurses, retirement of a whole cohort of older nurses post-covid, staff burnout post-covid, reduction in government funding, and the goodwill the NHS has run on for years finally running out?

@Livelovebehappy and the reason it is so dire is because people won't work there due to the pay/unsustainable workload. If we give up on paying staff properly then we'll lose it and end up paying for private healthcare (those who can afford it). I agree that lots of jobs are important to society but argueably ones health has to be near the top?

We’re all in the same boat. Low pay rises isn’t something exclusive to the NHS. Most of us are doing jobs that are important to society, and I can’t muster up too much sympathy for a poorly run NHS I’m afraid. My experience with the NHS over the last couple of years has been dire.

To be a 6 here we need a PGDip or MSc - I'm just doing my final module of PGDip

Band 1 closed to new recruits in 2018 but does still exist for people already on it who chose not to move to band 2. The salary is the same as band 2

@Sunflowers68 a band 5 is a registered nurse and a band for is an associate - they have differing responsibilities and level of qualification even if some tasks are the same

I don't know why so many people are fixated on the pension.

Yeah, it's great and all, but it doesn't pay the bills of the people currently working in the NHS and struggling. People need to heat their homes and buy their food. If Aldi pays more they'll end up going there and then what will folk do if they need a hospital appointment?

A lot of people on band 2 will be opting out of the pension. It's a great pension scheme but people will prioritise the need to pay their bills and feed their kids now over their pension

@EmilyTjP as do nurses who want to move from 5 to a 6 - here we need a masters level qualification to move up

The obsession with masters is so limiting for most people. I’m b7 and studying for a level 7 pgdip (hoping that will be enough because with 3 dc and a full time job it’s breaking me and the thought of writing a dissertation is not appealing).

I’m nhs (10 years) and we’ve all just gone through consultation with some of the team being made redundant. I got a job but had to sit a formal interview panel to prove I could do the job I’ve done for years. Sadly no job is secure.

Do you have any idea what they have to do and how complex their roles are now?

Could the government give a greater pay rise to those on a lower band? Does it have to be split evenly across all bands? For instance, could the lower bands get a 5% pay rise and the higher bands 4%?

They did that last time. Band 2 got a much bigger increase than the rest. There is only 22p an hour between band 2 and bottom of band 3 and understandably lots of people don’t think the extra training and responsibility is worth it. Band 3 does increment up to £1/hour over band 2 with time to £1285.85 net per year - less than £25 a week if working full time. In my trust band 2s get free parking and band 3s pay so that narrows it even more. Lots of band 2 HCAs in our trust are being upbanded to 3 as they have been doing the job by stealth. There is a lot of that - giving people extra work and responsibility and spinning it as a privilege rather than a job that they should be properly paid for. For the first 2 years they will get an extra £285.08 - but lose their free parking.
The difference between bottom of band 5 and top of band 4 is £500, but band 5 jobs are “qualified” jobs - nurses, physios, etc with degrees and the student loan repayments that go with them.

I’m a band 6. I don’t feel inclined to push myself to a 7 atm. I’d need to do a masters (or at least upgrade my PGcert to a PGDip), take on a lot more hassle, take on a lot more responsibility. I would also lose my unsocial hours shifts that I get more money for so even after 5 years when I would be top of band 7 then I wouldn’t necessarily be better off. If I didn’t do unsocial shifts now, moving to a band 7 would get me £4112 a year more after 5 years. It’s a much more difficult and stressful job.

I was basing my calculations on those posted above (1/54th of final salary per year of service).