To have found my first mammogram really upsetting?

It works in the same way it works for a smear or any other medical appointment. It’s not hard to ask before you touch someone, I’m staggered you have problems understanding that frankly.

Three and a half years after the problematic mammogram I had, I don’t go on with life as normal. I have had a subsequent one with a lot of care taken by the staff. But I am daily reminded of that other one because of pain and weakness.

So Marinade because you think there's no comparison, I guess you think I'm wrong and a moral failure to struggle hugely with smears as a result of my own experiences of sexual assault? Even though HCPs themselves fully understand this, and know it to be common? Because they are not the exact same thing and come from totally different intents, so that means one experience is not allowed to renmind you of the other?

And you told me to get a grip, so you were rude and patronising initially.

Only OP will know what happened here. If it was really rude and involved grabbing? It needs reporting. If it was professional, matter of fact and positioning? No.

But the issue with a mammogram is IMO there actually is some roughness and discomfort required - they have to pull your breast quite hard and flatten it in a machine. They do have to grab and squeeze and that's why it can be startling and possibly upsetting. That's why kind chat, warning at each stage, recognition that it's unpleasant etc. is helpful and supportive. IME they say things like, "I'm sorry this isn't very pleasant but I just need to pop your breat here and the machine will come down and squeeze it, don't worry it will stop after a second" etc so you know what's happening.

Thanks for the patronising response. Seriously you are the one who is hard of thinking. Rape is about power, manipulation and control of a person by violating their body, and sense of self. If you think that this can be 'compared' to an informed medical procedure where you are given lots of information to outline exactly how it will take place then I am afraid that your mind employs a very very reductive and immature thought process.

Totally ridiculous to compare a medical procedure used to screen and identify potential disease to a violation of one's body in the context of an assault. You really need to get a grip.

I really find it amazing how many people don't understand what a comparison is. A comparison doesn't mean you are saying the two things are exactly the same or just as bad as each other. It means there's a point of similarity or contrast that is relevant to what's being discussed.

It's not "totally ridiculous" to compare them at all. It is not saying "this nurse was just like a rapist". The whole point of comparisons is that the two things are NOT the same but the comparison may highlight a particular parallel.
Flying off the handle and getting angry and rude because you don't understand that is tiresome.

There is a clear comparison here with the issue of consent and having things done to your body and whether being there at all means you have consented. It's also a relevant comparison because some (many) women HAVE been sexually assaulted or manhandled without their consent and so the need to make sure patients feel forewarned and in control is really important.

I would argue that someone who's sensitive about the procedure, didn't fully understand what it entailed or indeed anyone who suddenly felt they couldn't cope for whatever reason could call a halt and say they couldn't do it. That's withdrawal of consent. Are you saying that they couldn't and the HCP should force the treatment on someone who said no or was clearly upset?

Nope my standards are incredibly high. You don't need to 'think' anything about them. I am just insightful enough to understand that we are lucky. Nothing in your 'pithy' response - that you think is so punchy and impactful - has counteracted anything I have said so I will stick to my beliefs, thanks.

Absolutely this.

I think you need to have higher standards.

So how do we figure that the OP’s take on it is actually what happened ? Could it not be that the radiographer was just doing her job as normal ? I’ve been for several mammograms and not very much was said during any of them except for requests to move my arm, turn my head etc - the radiographer pretty much repositioned and moved things out of the way to facilitate the best possible images. The point is, a mammogram speaks for itself - you will be touched and at times it will feel like you’re being manhandled.

Women have to put up with this type of shit - you mean an effective method of screening for breast cancer? What a strange thought process you have.

Incorrect: informed and implied non verbal consent is given by the free will of turning up, the clear information provided in the leaflets that show your breasts will need to be placed on the machine. You are the one who is talking 'bullshit' I am afraid.

The idea that consent is given just by 'turning up' is bullshit - I'm frankly horrified that so many on here think that.

Anyone who knows anything about consent knows it can be withdrawn at any time. So I'd say some forewarning AS the procedure is taking place - especially for an intimate exam like a mammogram - is vital.

In any event, THIS OP says she was uncomfortable. So SHE is absolutely within her rights to complain about her treatment.

What anyone thinks of that, is neither here nor there.

You're asking me for evidence for an hypothesised conclusion which I obviously can't provide.

Not sure what you're arguing really.

I think the system is barbaric and can be done better. I suggest that if men had to have their testicles pulled out by someone, placed between two metal plates that close together via a foot pedal control to the point where the testicle is painfully squashed, some other diagnostic would be invented.

I mean, most guys won't even contemplate a finger up their bum for a prostate exam.

But women have to just put up with this type of shit. 🙄

And this is where words matter.

I’ve read grabbed and I’ve read manhandled from others.

I have honestly never been grabbed at by any health professional. I’ve certainly never been ‘manhandled’. Have I been moved, examined, positioned in a matter of fact fashion? Yes. Has it felt impersonal? Yes. And as said, I prefer that. I can understand why some would not.

I can understand feeling vulnerable being topless - I understand that it is uncomfortable and not a particularly pleasant experience. I understand it may be unsettling having someone move you into position.

Our Health authority sends out a fairly comprehensive leaflet. I was also aware of how it might be (family history of breast cancer).

The reception might know it is a first time. That isn’t to say the person doing the scan does. And walking in would be the time to mention it.

Would it be wonderful if they had the time to sit everyone down to explain? Yes. But they don’t. Five words might have made all the difference. ‘It is my first mammogram’ and the experience could have been completely different.

It is no excuse to be rude or to grab during a medical procedure. But it is a world away from being matter of fact and positioning. And I have always been told ‘I need you to put your breast here - and only then do they position you/move your breast if necessary. I’ve never just walked to the machine without instruction to do so.

Only OP will know what happened here. If it was really rude and involved grabbing? It needs reporting. If it was professional, matter of fact and positioning? No.

I’m sorry you had that experience op. I haven’t had a mammogram but have had scans and examinations on my breasts. It’s a very vulnerable feeling and every time I have been examined, the health care providers have been very sensitive, asked for consent before touching, explained what they are doing etc. That’s how it should be and there’s no excuse for the lack of sensitivity shown to you. Yes, they might be doing mammograms all day every day, to me that should mean they are seasoned pro’s at making people feel comfortable x

Why on earth would you think that ? The radiographer was just doing her job. Mammogram involves touching and repositioning. The idea that each time requires specific consent is ludicrous. Everyone knows what mammogram involves, there are accompanying leaflets which explain the procedure. It’s a breast exam so it shouldn’t come as a shock to think that your breasts will be touched. Having just had a breast cancer diagnosis I feel very privileged to have had free access to routine screening that will possibly save my life by diagnosing the cancer early enough to treat it successfully. Surely that’s the most important thing here ?

Wow, why do you feel it necessary to be so dramatic? We are lucky to have a health care system that is free at the point of need, and which provides health care screening irrespective of contributions made. There are many countries that do not. Stating this is not horrific. I think you need to calm down a bit.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer three weeks ago as a result of a mammogram. That’s my take on it too. Sorry.

That is a horrific view of medical care.

What's your evidence for that assertion?

I'm not denying that it's horrible, and in particular I always quake at the thought of how tough it must be for frail elderly women with osteoporosis, who are normally outside the scope of screening but do get mammograms if they have symptoms.

But you're stating as a fact that there's definitely a less painful way that inventors aren't bothering to come up with, and I don't think that's justified.

It's not like PPE/stab vests/hard hats, where it's blatantly obvious that they could fit women better if the manufacturers/purchasers gave a toss about women's comfort.

Why is it legally essential ? Everyone knows what a mammogram entails, and from my own experience, the leaflets accompanying the appointment didn’t leave much to the imagination. If you’re going to say ‘no’ to the essential positioning to allow the mammogram to be effective then you might just as well not go. After my diagnosis the doctor had to do a physical examination where the tumour was located. The breastcare nurse explained what would happen, but the doctor didn’t ask for explicit consent to touch me - and nor did I expect him to, he just got on with it.

I beg to differ. It's sounding more and more like this behaviour IS the norm for a lot of people. The few times I've been seen for anything gynae related, those treating me, their attitudes sucked!

Doesn't matter where a procedure is taking place and/or by whom: people should ALWAYS be treated with respect and dignity.

And as for 'let's check our privilege' 🙄

I went for a mammogram at the end of March. Got a call back first week in April. Diagnosed with early stage lobular cancer and now facing mastectomy, radiotherapy and hormone treatment.

I read through the leaflets that came with the initial mammogram appointment and it stately very clearly that the procedure would involve being handled by the radiographer and at times would be uncomfortable. This is in the nature of the examination. I was repositioned several times, the radiographer handled each breast and moved each out of the way in turn when scanning the opposite side. There wasn’t much conversation apart from asking me to move my arm or head a certain way to facilitate the scans.

Not once did I feel invaded or demeaned because I had prepared myself for what was to come. The issue of ‘consent’ doesn’t apply here - you know it’s a mammogram and you know you will be handled, so by turning up for the examination you are giving consent to do what’s necessary. If you felt as though you needed extra support the facility was there for you to contact them. Mammogram isn’t a pleasant procedure OP, but perhaps be grateful you live in a country where it’s offered. Because one day, and from my own personal experience, when you least expect it, you may have cause to thank your lucky stars it was there.

for instance an doctor deliberately touched a woman's breast without saying anything first, even if the examination was expected, then the GMC would regard that as a sexual assault.

Agreed, but OP was there for a mammogram, not a swollen foot but ended up having her breasts touched.