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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have found my first mammogram really upsetting?

711 replies

YompingJo · 28/04/2024 07:11

Got a letter through with very basic details if an appointment. Turned up and found the whole thing demeaning. Tiny room, intimidating machine taking up most of it. The radiologist was monosyllabic and bossy and manhandled me into the right position including grabbing each breast and shoving it into position, pushing other bits of my body out of the way, not once asking first. I know it's a necessary procedure, but a bit of sensitivity would have gone a long way, and having the respect to ask for consent before grabbing a breast is a basic consideration. I'm autistic and needed to know much more what to expect beforehand. The letter gave a way to request assistance in the case of SEN, but I don't consider myself to have SEN and didn't know what I'd need until I was right there, so that wasn't any help. There was a QR code for feedback, which I gave but I just feel... invaded and demeaned. AIBU?

OP posts:
Marinade · 29/04/2024 12:07

RelationshipOrNot · 29/04/2024 12:05

People who have experienced abuse shouldn't have to inform the HCPs of that to be treated kindly. It should just be normal to treat people undergoing ANY medical procedure, especially one that makes you feel vulnerable, kindly. It takes no more time than being terse. I can't possibly see how that could be considered unreasonable.

No but this whole thing came down to whether consent is necessary and my view is that it is not. As to whether the radiographer was rude / abrupt then I think these facets can be very subjective.

Naunet · 29/04/2024 12:06

Marinade · 29/04/2024 12:00

I am very very sorry for your experience of abuse that is horrific. But nowhere in the initial posting was this mentioned as a relevant factor. Of course for people who have been through a traumatic experience like your's I can see that the procedure could be conducted differently. Like I said my comments were not said in the context of the OP having suffered abuse because this was not mentioned.

Well presumably you are aware some women have a history of abuse, so why do I need to disclose it? I shouldn’t have to tell a stranger that in order to be treated with kindness. No woman should. This is why it’s needed.

RelationshipOrNot · 29/04/2024 12:05

Marinade · 29/04/2024 12:00

I am very very sorry for your experience of abuse that is horrific. But nowhere in the initial posting was this mentioned as a relevant factor. Of course for people who have been through a traumatic experience like your's I can see that the procedure could be conducted differently. Like I said my comments were not said in the context of the OP having suffered abuse because this was not mentioned.

People who have experienced abuse shouldn't have to inform the HCPs of that to be treated kindly. It should just be normal to treat people undergoing ANY medical procedure, especially one that makes you feel vulnerable, kindly. It takes no more time than being terse. I can't possibly see how that could be considered unreasonable.

EBearhug · 29/04/2024 12:04

I think even on a busy day, possibly running behind, it will not add much to a nurse's time to say things like, "I just need to adjust you here," "I'm moving your left breast to a better position," "this is going to be uncomfortable," just basic stuff while doing the job that needs doing - but which would make a big difference to the patient's experience as it happens.

Naunet · 29/04/2024 12:03

Whitestark · 29/04/2024 11:38

It works in the same way it works for a smear or any other medical appointment. It’s not hard to ask before you touch someone, I’m staggered you have problems understanding that frankly

It's not lack of understanding, it's disagreeing with you that it's necessary in the context of someone willingly turning up for a very specific non mandatory medical check

Why don’t you think women should be asked before being grabbed by a stranger, why isn’t their comfort important to you? Why do you think it’s too much to expect a medical professional to ask before touching? It takes seconds. You’re insisting it’s not needed, when many women here are telling you it is, yet you decide to ignore them, why?

Marinade · 29/04/2024 12:02

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 29/04/2024 11:56

Pithy and punchy? 😊

Yup! Pithy (concise) Punchy (you were trying to be forceful and effective). So you succeeded in the former but spectacularly failed in the latter (IMO).

Marinade · 29/04/2024 12:00

Naunet · 29/04/2024 11:57

So even though you know it would make many women more comfortable, you don’t think it’s important enough? And let’s just be clear again, this is in regards to simply treating a patient with respect and asking for consent first. Just literally takes a couple of seconds, but you think it’s too much bother? Sounds very callus to me. Patients are consenting to the medical appointment by turning up, sure, but that doesn’t mean they expect to suddenly be manhandled. Also they are free to leave whenever they want, and it’s what I will do if anyone ever tries to grab me like that.

Do you have any empathy at all for women like me who have been abused? I was sexually abused as a child, it’s something you NEVER get over, and situations like this are very difficult for me. Being treated with kindness makes the whole thing so much easier and less traumatic. I can only be grateful that the amazing medical staff I’ve encountered don’t have your dehumanising attitude.

I am very very sorry for your experience of abuse that is horrific. But nowhere in the initial posting was this mentioned as a relevant factor. Of course for people who have been through a traumatic experience like your's I can see that the procedure could be conducted differently. Like I said my comments were not said in the context of the OP having suffered abuse because this was not mentioned.

Naunet · 29/04/2024 11:57

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:39

I think it is dogmatic to pursue this line of thinking when the process works so seemlessly for so many people. I have found that the coomments are so damning and critical of the medical staff performing the procedure as to be disrespectful. They are undertaking such an important role with time constraints. Why do you need to add to this additional layer of 'consent' when it is obvious patients are entering of their own free will with an informed mind set if they have read the leaflets provided? When you say that it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable, what is this actually based on? The NHS employs evidence based practice so if the process was so broken then I think it would have been remedied or changed by now?

So even though you know it would make many women more comfortable, you don’t think it’s important enough? And let’s just be clear again, this is in regards to simply treating a patient with respect and asking for consent first. Just literally takes a couple of seconds, but you think it’s too much bother? Sounds very callus to me. Patients are consenting to the medical appointment by turning up, sure, but that doesn’t mean they expect to suddenly be manhandled. Also they are free to leave whenever they want, and it’s what I will do if anyone ever tries to grab me like that.

Do you have any empathy at all for women like me who have been abused? I was sexually abused as a child, it’s something you NEVER get over, and situations like this are very difficult for me. Being treated with kindness makes the whole thing so much easier and less traumatic. I can only be grateful that the amazing medical staff I’ve encountered don’t have your dehumanising attitude.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 29/04/2024 11:56

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:13

Nope my standards are incredibly high. You don't need to 'think' anything about them. I am just insightful enough to understand that we are lucky. Nothing in your 'pithy' response - that you think is so punchy and impactful - has counteracted anything I have said so I will stick to my beliefs, thanks.

Pithy and punchy? 😊

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:55

Seeline · 29/04/2024 11:44

What surprises me is the number of people don't think someone else's experience can be different from their own.
As stated earlier my experience was similar to the OPs.
My appointment came via text, there was no accompanying leaflet.
I've just checked the website links the text directed me to, as I began to wonder whether my memory wasn't right.
No where did it say that the radiographer would need to touch me - either my breasts or any part of me.
It said the procedure might be uncomfortable.
My radiographer knew it was my first time because she asked me as she was at the reception desk.
She gave no hello when I went into the room. Just told me to take my top off and go to the machine. She gave no indication of what she would do. Just gave very abrupt instructions of move here, hold that etc.
There was no personal interaction at all.

I can quite believe the OPs account.
Equally I believe others that say they had a different experience. I hope that maybe next time mine and the OPs might be better too.

Maybe next time there will be sweets and cookies offered. If you cannot locate information about the conduct of a mammogram and if you were concerned, then I think that falls on you to a certain extent. As for chastising the staff - what you see as abrupt - others like me would see as professionalism. So we are back to that notion that people can have different perceptions - the thing you were so keen to outline remember?

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:50

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/04/2024 11:48

Then surely the issue of 'initially' offering consent is irrelevant, which is exactly what I said in the first place?
Not sure why you needed to comment, to be honest.

No idea what you are talking about now. And you jumped on my post calling me clueless remember? So I am confused as to why you are confused.

Painauraison · 29/04/2024 11:48

I think there's a few unfair comments here.
Being lucky to get this kind of scanning for free is a separate issue to the fact that the radiographer had no people skills and didn't maintain this lady's dignity at all.
This would have upset me too. I sometimes ask for a chaperone to intimate procedures - is this an option for next time? No idea why but the second I step foot in a hospital my heart rate goes crazy!

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/04/2024 11:48

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:42

Calm down I did not say you cannot withdraw from the procedure of course you can - but you can do this irrespective of whether your 'consent' was sought explicitly. What on earth are you talking about? I also didn't refer to you as idiot so maybe you are projecting.

Then surely the issue of 'initially' offering consent is irrelevant, which is exactly what I said in the first place?
Not sure why you needed to comment, to be honest.

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:46

Roundandroundthegard3n · 29/04/2024 11:33

You think the experience the op had was done with full transparency? Really?!

What was lacking on the transparency front, please do enlighten me?

Seeline · 29/04/2024 11:44

What surprises me is the number of people don't think someone else's experience can be different from their own.
As stated earlier my experience was similar to the OPs.
My appointment came via text, there was no accompanying leaflet.
I've just checked the website links the text directed me to, as I began to wonder whether my memory wasn't right.
No where did it say that the radiographer would need to touch me - either my breasts or any part of me.
It said the procedure might be uncomfortable.
My radiographer knew it was my first time because she asked me as she was at the reception desk.
She gave no hello when I went into the room. Just told me to take my top off and go to the machine. She gave no indication of what she would do. Just gave very abrupt instructions of move here, hold that etc.
There was no personal interaction at all.

I can quite believe the OPs account.
Equally I believe others that say they had a different experience. I hope that maybe next time mine and the OPs might be better too.

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:43

ArcaneWireless · 29/04/2024 11:41

To be fair to marinade they didn’t say that consent couldn’t be withdrawn at any time during the procedure.

Exactly and yet i am the one called clueless and lacking in nuance...

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:42

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/04/2024 11:38

How clueless are you!? Do you not understand anything about nuance?

Nobody is disputing WHAT is done at a mammogram - just HOW it is done. I know that my breasts will need to be placed on a machine. I'm not an idiot!

However, if at any point during the procedure, I don't like HOW my breasts are being placed on the machine, I can absolutely withdraw my consent.

Who the hell are you to say I can't!?

Calm down I did not say you cannot withdraw from the procedure of course you can - but you can do this irrespective of whether your 'consent' was sought explicitly. What on earth are you talking about? I also didn't refer to you as idiot so maybe you are projecting.

ArcaneWireless · 29/04/2024 11:41

To be fair to marinade they didn’t say that consent couldn’t be withdrawn at any time during the procedure.

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:39

Naunet · 29/04/2024 11:32

Why are you so against medical staff having to ask before they touch someone, especially when you know it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable?

I think it is dogmatic to pursue this line of thinking when the process works so seemlessly for so many people. I have found that the coomments are so damning and critical of the medical staff performing the procedure as to be disrespectful. They are undertaking such an important role with time constraints. Why do you need to add to this additional layer of 'consent' when it is obvious patients are entering of their own free will with an informed mind set if they have read the leaflets provided? When you say that it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable, what is this actually based on? The NHS employs evidence based practice so if the process was so broken then I think it would have been remedied or changed by now?

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/04/2024 11:38

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:05

Incorrect: informed and implied non verbal consent is given by the free will of turning up, the clear information provided in the leaflets that show your breasts will need to be placed on the machine. You are the one who is talking 'bullshit' I am afraid.

How clueless are you!? Do you not understand anything about nuance?

Nobody is disputing WHAT is done at a mammogram - just HOW it is done. I know that my breasts will need to be placed on a machine. I'm not an idiot!

However, if at any point during the procedure, I don't like HOW my breasts are being placed on the machine, I can absolutely withdraw my consent.

Who the hell are you to say I can't!?

Whitestark · 29/04/2024 11:38

It works in the same way it works for a smear or any other medical appointment. It’s not hard to ask before you touch someone, I’m staggered you have problems understanding that frankly

It's not lack of understanding, it's disagreeing with you that it's necessary in the context of someone willingly turning up for a very specific non mandatory medical check

Roundandroundthegard3n · 29/04/2024 11:33

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:30

I understand that is triggering and I am very sorry for your experience. But I cannot agree with the comparisons that have been drawn with reference to the concept of consent in the context of a rape vs a mammogram. The procedure is undertaken with full transparency and without any coercion which is the opposite of an assault on one's person.

You think the experience the op had was done with full transparency? Really?!

Roundandroundthegard3n · 29/04/2024 11:32

aerkfjherf · 28/04/2024 07:14

you are so fortunate to be in a country where this service is offered, just be grateful it has been done. It isn't fun in any circumstances, but it is a real privilege to get it

She's not lucky or privileged to have experienced what she experienced. She deserves the opportunity to give informed consent and to not be manhandled. How many other women has this radiographer done this to, ensuring they'll never go back for another mammogram?

Access to healthcare shouldn't come with feeling like your boundaries have been violated.

Op you also shouldn't be forced to disclose a disability to be treated like a human being but in future you may need to take the SEN option.

Naunet · 29/04/2024 11:32

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:30

I understand that is triggering and I am very sorry for your experience. But I cannot agree with the comparisons that have been drawn with reference to the concept of consent in the context of a rape vs a mammogram. The procedure is undertaken with full transparency and without any coercion which is the opposite of an assault on one's person.

Why are you so against medical staff having to ask before they touch someone, especially when you know it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable?

Marinade · 29/04/2024 11:30

MrsWhattery · 29/04/2024 11:27

So Marinade because you think there's no comparison, I guess you think I'm wrong and a moral failure to struggle hugely with smears as a result of my own experiences of sexual assault? Even though HCPs themselves fully understand this, and know it to be common? Because they are not the exact same thing and come from totally different intents, so that means one experience is not allowed to renmind you of the other?

And you told me to get a grip, so you were rude and patronising initially.

I understand that is triggering and I am very sorry for your experience. But I cannot agree with the comparisons that have been drawn with reference to the concept of consent in the context of a rape vs a mammogram. The procedure is undertaken with full transparency and without any coercion which is the opposite of an assault on one's person.