Do toxic people know they’re toxic?

"Every single toxic person I've met can switch it on and off when they please"

Yes, this is a great point, and true of the three toxic people I referred to earlier. It was one of the aspects that finally pushed me to lose tolerance for it. However much they protest they are the victim, and can't control/are not responsible for eg screaming at you, they don't scream at other people randomly. In fact they are quite conscious of reputation management.

I'll never forget my MIL having a seemingly uncontrollable panic/screaming meltdown at my DH (this was a weekly occurrence, any time anything was going well, or there was attention away from her) this time, It was for something totally random, like she'd lost her keys and he was trying to get her to think calmly about where they could be. She was screeching at him hysterically, calling him Hitler (this was one of her favourites, along with saying she was like Jesus on the Cross, that she wished she was dead, and that he'd ruined her life from being born)).... anyway, mid flow, a friend of hers calls. She answers in a nearly totally normal voice, then starts screaming when she puts the phone down again.

She, and the other two people have a string of broken relationships, professional positions etc behind them. They end up very isolated, but it's always everybody else's fault. People just don't understand.....

Even if they did, I’d guess that really toxic people wouldn’t care.

98% of people are toxic due to conditioning, environment and ACEs.
They will not recognise toxicity and are just trying to get their own needs met.

1-2% of people are sociopaths and psychopaths, and yes they have capacity to inflict pain and suffering and often enjoy doing so. These traits can run in families and can be diagnosed.

Counselling can help if you have been impacted. Choosing to keep yourself at a safe distance and recognising your responses and patterns can be really helpful. Look up the drama triangle.

They'll always make excuses by blaming other people

Look on MN. The number of posters who say the most cutting, snide comments clearly meant to upset someone is frighteningly high.

They must know. Their INTENTION must be to upset. Are they thinking 'yeah this is a great comment. It'll really piss them off/upset them'? And 'oooo this is a clever way to get a nasty comment in'

What's going on in them that makes them enjoy doing this?

I agree with you @YoureALizardHarry11

It's interesting as I look back and see how I had traits that I didn't see in myself then but I've grown up and become more self aware and this seems unusual.

No I don't think they do. When I think of people whom I think of as toxic I think they think they do no wrong and anyone who criticises them is the problem.

I used to have some toxic traits, thankfully not that many, but no, I didn’t intentionally behave that way. I didn’t realise at the time how I came across, I didn’t understand myself I suppose. Now I’m older, wiser and more self aware and reflective, plus I just don’t give a shiny shit about the majority of things I used to care about, so that helped!

I think every single person has or has had some traits in the past that could be considered toxic. It takes a properly emotionally mature person to recognise it in themselves. Those sorts of behaviours are consequences of upbringing and life experiences, they don’t necessarily make someone a bad person.

I think it depends. There are all different kinds of toxic behaviour and all different types of people. I once knew someone who knew that they were toxic and revelled in it. They had a sadistic streak and got off on deliberately hurting people. And they didn’t care or have any desire to change.

There are people who definitely don’t and are totally dissociated from their own negative traits and wrongdoings, and are so self centred they can’t see beyond their own wants/needs.

Then there are people who are more narcissistic/sociopathic who genuinely enjoy hurting other people. Those people I think just have a different idea of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and see hurting people as powerful and enjoyable.

But, that said, I'm horrible to the person above 🤷🏼‍♂️ it's completely intentional. I never initiate contact, give them no personal information, turn down (politely) all invitations and display a stony face at all attempts of gossip bonding or just say 'that's an unkind thing to say, do they know that you gate them?' So, I'm a massive bitch to that person i guess.

I don't think so actually! I have a family member who is a really hard bitch and says truly awful things behind other people's backs, always. She can't stand it if you say someone else looked lovely in their wedding dress or someone is lovely, she'll find any criticism at all. Always looks up the price of presents and complains (behind their back) and gives horrible broken or half used regifts herself (incredibly wealthy). She seems exceptionally happy and refers to herself as a really nice person. It baffles me,the self delusion. I know my many faults and listen if a trusted loved one says I've been doing xyz.

I guess that mostly not

everybody is somebody's "toxic".

Honestly I think most of us have very little introspection of our own toxic traits.

This is so very true.I have a very good friend who has left several jobs over the last few years.. She has had the exact same issues at each of them.

Namely that she is a chronic people pleaser who expects the same level of people pleasing from others. She accepts she does it but doesn't understand why people have an issue with it. If we were all just 'nicer' to each other, the world would be a better place. So she considers herself to have a higher moral code than others.

She raises grievances, gets the union involved, fires off emails all on the back of having 'found her own voice' and assert her needs/address the toxic culture of bullying in the work place and cannot see for a second the toxicity coming from her. None of her grievances has been upheld following investigation and she just leaves.

She takes a similar approach to friendships. She genuinely believes she has a higher moral code than other people and that everyone should be more like her. She descibes other people's lack of people pleasing as toxic.

She's given me detailed accounts of exchanges she's had with colleagues, managers and unions, other friends and, tbh, they must be losing sleep over which way is up at times based on some of the issues she has raised.

I think everyone has the potential to be toxic or to fall into toxic behaviour patterns with the wrong partner, however in my experience there is a difference between those that can recognise that and address it and those that can’t.

if someone is being toxic but takes no accountability for it and always finding ways to blame anyone / everyone else then that in my opinion is truly toxic behaviour. Often this happens with self absorbed people who lack any emotional intelligence meaning they actually believe their behaviour is excusable.

So to answer your question, no I don’t think they know how toxic they are, but if you come across them run for the hills.

They definetly know their behaviour is toxic, that's why they get do angry when anyone confronts them on it even it's done in a nice way. They 100% know their toxic but they feel so entitled to do and say the things they do, that they dont care.

Every single toxic person I've met can switch it on and off when they please

I'd say not as I've come across many narcissists and they are convinced they are right. They project their failures on to others so don't address what they do wrong.

I try to avoid them at all costs.We have a few in our family and they breed mini narcissists. You can see the same issues: excessive entitlement, unwilling to accept responsibility, criticism of others and (annoying) unwanted opinions given constantly. I find the offspring vile and I'd rather just avoid than deal with them.

Thinking about the toxic people I know I would say that they think they deserve to get what they want when they want it. So they don't necessarily think they are toxic rather that they are special (entitled) humans. People that aren't toxic take other people's wellbeing into consideration. Toxic people don't.

This is the effectively the adult equivalent of “did school bullies know they were bullies”.

So many adults remember being bullied at school, but so few recall being a bully. The numbers don’t tally. Many who remember being bullied must also have been perceived to be the bully by someone, at some point.

I think unless there is some kind of campaign of cruelty/violence then no, people often don’t realise that they are a bully/toxic. I think even in those circumstances, people of all ages are very adept at not seeing their own behaviour for what it is, self justification is a prevalent trait in all people.

Self reflection is a skill really and very few have it.

I would suggest you have never encountered a truly toxic person if you think this.

My boss is. I don't think she is aware.

People keep leaving our business due to her behaviour. Its blindingly obvious, but not being addressed as she is 'the boss.' I thought she had an inkling. However, I was doing an interview with her a few weeks ago. She actually said (to the candidate) - 'People keep leaving and all we're doing is trying to build a stable team. I know I'm not the issue as I'm great to work with, maybe its you mjf981??' I was gobsmacked at her lack of self awareness.

I'm toxic and aware. I'm trying seriously hard to change it

I think they know they are being toxic but they regard themselves as being more “open and honest” than others who hypocritically remain silent or who use non judgmental problem solving from their point of view.

They believe they are right in whatever issue is at hand, so their targets need to be corrected to knowing their place and so the end justifies the means.