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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say I don’t want to see him again?

111 replies

BrightonFrock · 27/04/2024 14:41

Sorry, this is a long and a lot of people are involved - I’ll try to stick to the essentials without drip feeding!

I’ve been seeing someone, Carl, for a couple of months now. We get on great, but one thing that does bother me is that he’s very “least said, soonest mended” - no one must ever confront an issue or fight back or “make a fuss”. This is absolutely not me. However, I’ve been trying to stay open-minded, and thought it might not be the worst thing to be with someone who’s naturally calmer and more softly-softly than me.

Carl has lived in this area all his life and has a very well-established friendship group. He told me early on that there are a couple of issues at the moment, one being that a married couple within the group, Tony and Janet, split a few months ago. Carl has known Tony for over 20 years, but actually knew Janet first as they were at school together. Janet is unhappy that he’s trying to stay friends with them both and thinks he should side with her. As such, they haven’t spoken much lately and I haven’t met her.

The other issue is that no one likes his friend Dave’s fiancée, Lisa. Carl said they all find her tactless and overbearing. I hadn’t met her until last night, but one of the women I the group (who I really get on well with) had shared the same opinion, unprompted, on another occasion.

Anyway, last night was Tony’s birthday, and I finally got to meet the (in)famous Lisa. I was talking to someone else when she came over to Carl, who’d been chatting to someone near us. I heard her say “Well, I’m surprised to see you here. I thought you were big friends with Janet. I thought you’d be siding with her”. He was clearly embarrassed and just said it was difficult for everyone and he wanted to try to stay out of it. She was still pushing, saying it was VERY difficult for poor Janet, who did she have on her side etc. I couldn’t hear exactly what Carl replied as I was still in another conversation, but he was massively uncomfortable.

I joined him soon afterwards and asked was he going to let her speak to him like that. He said, “Well now you see what I mean about her. Anyway, let’s just forget it. Don’t you go saying anything either”. I wasn’t happy, but thought we’d just avoid her for the rest of the night.

Anyway, she buttonholed me later and said to me “So what do you think of this whole business with Janet?” I said I hadn’t met her yet, but it was obvious very difficult for people. She replied that she was “just surprised” to see me and Carl there. I was getting riled now, but just said that no one likes getting dragged into other people’s arguments. (Hint fucking hint, Lisa.) She then rather condescendingly said, “Well that’s fine, but I happen to LIKE Janet. I think it’s all very unfair”.

Well, that was the final straw for me. I said, “Well alright then - what are YOU doing here?” She was a bit taken aback and asked what I meant. I said “What I said - why are YOU here? It’s Tony’s birthday - if you’re so unhappy about what’s happened between him and Janet, YOU could have stayed away”. She was spluttering a bit and said that was different; she was here with her partner; Carl hadn’t had to come at all. I said, “Well YOU didn’t have to come either. You’ve got a mind of your own, so maybe you should have decided not to come instead of criticising other people”.

Of course, Carl heard the whole thing and started trying to get me away. We talked outside and I pretty much got the blame for the whole thing - why did I have to say anything, he’d told me to just leave it, people will be talking… I said if he didn’t want to stick up for himself I couldn’t force him, but that I wasn’t going to stand by and meekly listen to that. It was so bloody hypocritical! But no; he was still whinging on about how I’d made a scene, didn’t I know he doesn’t like confrontation… I ended up telling him that he was worried about upsetting everyone other than me, and that maybe for once I could get the benefit of his precious diplomacy. In the end I decided I was going home. Surprise surprise, he was more worried about what his friends would think than about the fact that I felt too annoyed to stay.

We’re supposed to be meeting up tonight. I’ve had a message this morning saying “If you can come over a bit earlier tonight, I’d appreciate it. I think we need a chat about last night”.

WIBU to say I don’t want to chat about it, and would frankly rather call it quits? He’ll be expecting me to apologise, but I don’t think I’ve done anything wrong. I will always stand up for myself, and if he thinks that’s unacceptable and is more worried about the opinions of others, we’re just not suited.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 28/04/2024 12:54

Sparklfairy · 27/04/2024 14:59

He's wet, no doubt about it, but this drama was absolutely none of your business. I'm pretty outspoken and regret it later but even I was cringing at what you said.

I don't understand why you went for her like that. Just say, 'It's none of my business, I've never even met her' and back away slowly, surely?

Edited

I think the OP stood up for herself and had every right to say what she said.

But I definitely think he's a waste of time and energy

thing47 · 28/04/2024 12:40

SleepingStandingUp · 28/04/2024 12:05

Because Lisa made a point of having a conversation with her. Op said nothing wrong, it's ridiculous to think of should have put her head down and scuttled off or told Lisa she wasn't allowed to talk to her fgs

Sure, but it's possible to be assertive without being confrontational. Wouldn't most people say something along the lines of: 'Actually Lisa I don't know Tony all that well and I've never even met Janet so I'm not prepared to get drawn into an argument about them. I'm just here to celebrate Tony's birthday – as are you, I guess? – so I'm not going to have this conversation.' And then just walk off to find someone else to talk to.

@BrightonFrock you're entitled to draw whatever boundaries you personally want, and that's absolutely fine. But if they're so markedly different from your boyfriend's then the relationship isn't going to work. As you yourself have acknowledged.

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 12:32

SleepingStandingUp · 28/04/2024 12:05

Because Lisa made a point of having a conversation with her. Op said nothing wrong, it's ridiculous to think of should have put her head down and scuttled off or told Lisa she wasn't allowed to talk to her fgs

There’s a lot of middle ground between the needlessly aggressive altercation the OP got into (and which Lisa, for her own reasons, clearly wanted to provoke), and ‘scuttling off’. Perfectly possible to say ‘Having never met Janet, I can’t get excited about any of this, I’m afraid. Nice weather we’re having, isn’t it?’

notprincehamlet · 28/04/2024 12:21

I feel like I've wandered into a Mike Leigh film

Bumblebeestiltskin · 28/04/2024 12:11

I would have done exactly the same as you, and would feel the same way about Carl and his friendship group. I think you've made the right decision!

SleepingStandingUp · 28/04/2024 12:05

Maddy70 · 27/04/2024 14:49

Wow so much drama. Why did you feel the need to say anything? Just let them all get on with it?

Because Lisa made a point of having a conversation with her. Op said nothing wrong, it's ridiculous to think of should have put her head down and scuttled off or told Lisa she wasn't allowed to talk to her fgs

AspiringChatBot · 28/04/2024 12:01

Lisa is clearly bonkers (unless there's some complicated back story that explains why Dave is forced to attend Tony's party while Carl was free to decline AND she thinks you know and care about this). Which might have been what Carl was trying to tell you before the incident: nothing you say to her will make any difference, so it's not worth upsetting Tony or making the rest of the group uncomfortable; it's genuinely better to walk away or ignore.

However, I think he should have prepared you better - would it not also have been rude for you to pointedly ignore Lisa, if it was a small gathering? - and/or had more sympathy with the fact that she directly attacked you and you did your best to deflect it. You'll know best from what you've seen of him so far - will his proposed "talk" include letting you have your say and explaining his rationale honestly, or is it more like being called to the headmaster's office? If he really intends to have an actual open give-and-take conversation about what happened, then I can understand his wanting to do it face to face and not over text/phone.

That said, you're not obliged to talk with him. If you're sure the relationship is over and nothing he says will change your mind, and you won't be second-guessing the decision after the fact, then end it. But the fact that you've posted here about it and gone to speak with a friend about it seems to suggest that you might not be sure.

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 12:00

Crunchymum · 28/04/2024 11:52

I am team Carl on the Lisa issue.

He asked you not to say anything. In this instance I'd have done just that, I wouldn't walk into an established friendship group and behave like that. It's not your place (IMO).

Although I'd have made my excuses and left because clearly the friendship group has issues and yes it would open questions about the whole relationship.

So YABU for having it out with Lisa when you knew the dynamics and had been asked not to but YANBU for wanting to dump the spineless, people pleaser who clearly puts his friend above you.

It occurs to me it’s perfectly possible that the group will have dubbed the OP the ‘new Lisa’ and be putting their heads together about how dreadful she is…

Honestly, OP, do you really need these people in your life? Even if you thought Carl was the best thing ever, imagine your wedding, where you’re saying your vows, and in the background people are trying to keep Janet and Tony apart, Lisa is audibly saying ‘I’m surprised Carl is marrying someone who didn’t take Janet’s side’ etc etc.

Crunchymum · 28/04/2024 11:56

MN does seem to swing between the wet lettuces who let "CF's" walk all over them and the uber "assertive" people who are constantly 'speaking their truth' and 'calling things out'

The reality is most people fall somewhere in between. Most people can be assertive when need be and realise when to keep their trap shut or walk away!

Crunchymum · 28/04/2024 11:52

I am team Carl on the Lisa issue.

He asked you not to say anything. In this instance I'd have done just that, I wouldn't walk into an established friendship group and behave like that. It's not your place (IMO).

Although I'd have made my excuses and left because clearly the friendship group has issues and yes it would open questions about the whole relationship.

So YABU for having it out with Lisa when you knew the dynamics and had been asked not to but YANBU for wanting to dump the spineless, people pleaser who clearly puts his friend above you.

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:47

exomoon · 28/04/2024 11:40

I LOVED your response to Lisa, OP 🤣

You have to remember most MNers can’t say boo to a goose so they resent you for being assertive.

You tried to be diplomatic but Lisa kept pushing it, the hypocritical twat. And Carl is a coward who runs after these toxic couples and then tries to placate you when his friends are safely out of sight.

They all sound a bunch of losers, you’re well out of it!

Well, I’m pretty assertive, but I couldn’t be bothered with someone trying to get me into a fight about someone I’ve never met and am not particularly concerned about.

I agree with you though that at two months into dating, I’m still essentially auditioning both the man and his friends, and him being so enmeshed with this fairly incestuous-sounding group (the divorcing couple, Janet wanting people to take sides, quarrelsome, nosy Lisa etc) would probably be enough in itself to make me move on. I don’t need that in my life.

ThinWomansBrain · 28/04/2024 11:46

all sounds very childish - but your partners attitude of 'let them get on with it' rather than being confrontational seems appropriate, rather than escalating it to a drama.

x2boys · 28/04/2024 11:40

This all sounds quite juvenile
My son has a habit of telling me about all the dramas in his friendship group ,but he's only 17 ,how old are these people? ,
I don't think I could be bothered with all this tbh.

exomoon · 28/04/2024 11:40

I LOVED your response to Lisa, OP 🤣

You have to remember most MNers can’t say boo to a goose so they resent you for being assertive.

You tried to be diplomatic but Lisa kept pushing it, the hypocritical twat. And Carl is a coward who runs after these toxic couples and then tries to placate you when his friends are safely out of sight.

They all sound a bunch of losers, you’re well out of it!

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:34

LeaveTheClocksAlone · 28/04/2024 11:32

Telling someone to take a chill pill is very immature

It’s exactly what I would be telling a total stranger trying to get me into a fight about a woman I’ve never met — it’s a pretty ‘immature’ situation.

LeaveTheClocksAlone · 28/04/2024 11:32

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:29

She is aggressive and dramatic. Lisa is a total stranger generally reputed to be annoying, and the OP has never even met Janet — and she’s been seeing Carl for two months (and it’s clearly over, pretty much, as she thinks he’s wet and he thinks she’s needlessly reactive) . She has no skin in the game.

I’m an assertive person who doesn’t let herself get pushed around, but in this scenario I’d probably have said ‘Gosh, Lisa, you seem a bit over-invested in all of this. Maybe take a chill pill’ and gone and got another drink or talked to someone more interesting.

Telling someone to take a chill pill is very immature

BrightonFrock · 28/04/2024 11:30

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:29

She is aggressive and dramatic. Lisa is a total stranger generally reputed to be annoying, and the OP has never even met Janet — and she’s been seeing Carl for two months (and it’s clearly over, pretty much, as she thinks he’s wet and he thinks she’s needlessly reactive) . She has no skin in the game.

I’m an assertive person who doesn’t let herself get pushed around, but in this scenario I’d probably have said ‘Gosh, Lisa, you seem a bit over-invested in all of this. Maybe take a chill pill’ and gone and got another drink or talked to someone more interesting.

Ha! How would your reply have been any better?

OP posts:
LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:29

LeaveTheClocksAlone · 28/04/2024 11:09

Exactly! I don't know why people are calling the OP aggressive and dramatic. She was pushed - she pushed back. Good for her on not being shoved around by the gobby twat.

She is aggressive and dramatic. Lisa is a total stranger generally reputed to be annoying, and the OP has never even met Janet — and she’s been seeing Carl for two months (and it’s clearly over, pretty much, as she thinks he’s wet and he thinks she’s needlessly reactive) . She has no skin in the game.

I’m an assertive person who doesn’t let herself get pushed around, but in this scenario I’d probably have said ‘Gosh, Lisa, you seem a bit over-invested in all of this. Maybe take a chill pill’ and gone and got another drink or talked to someone more interesting.

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 11:24

Gettingbysomehow · 28/04/2024 10:42

I'm like you I'd have had to say something.
I couldn't be with a massive people pleaser it would drive me nuts.

I assume that if you’re in a longterm group of very tightly-meshed adult friends who see an awful lot of one another, there’s a fair bit of semi-compulsory lip-biting and keeping schtum, though, especially when two of the group are divorcing . It sounds as if there is in this group a general ‘keep schtum’ rule, hence the general dislike of the new fiancée who didn’t get the memo.

I mean, it’s Carl’s decision how he behaves with his friends, how he negotiates trying to maintain friendships with both halves of a divorcing couple. Someone he’s been dating two months really doesn’t have the right to decide he’s not ‘asserting himself’ with Lisa the irritating, who is, after all, going to marry his close friend, and with whom he’s unlikely to want to fall out.

LeaveTheClocksAlone · 28/04/2024 11:09

BMW6 · 28/04/2024 10:29

You were totally right in calling out Lisa for her utter hypocrisy. She demanded an answer from you - she got one!

Carl sounds like an absolute drip.

Exactly! I don't know why people are calling the OP aggressive and dramatic. She was pushed - she pushed back. Good for her on not being shoved around by the gobby twat.

BrightonFrock · 28/04/2024 11:07

Onelifeonly · 28/04/2024 10:51

There's a fine line between being a people pleaser (we all are to a greater or lesser extent, only psychopaths don't care) and confronting everything you don't agree with or that annoys you.

To choose which side of the line to take you need to assess the situation and weigh up the harms and benefits. OP has decided the harm to the man she is/ was dating is of less concern than the satisfaction of berating one of his friend's girlfriends.

To make the call she made, clearly OP didn't care too much about Carl in the first place.

The “harm”? I didn’t hit him with a brick!

If you’re going to look at it that way, why were my feelings of less concern to him than those of someone he doesn’t even like?

OP posts:
Winningatpatriachychicken · 28/04/2024 11:00

@BrightonFrock

You sound spectacular, Carl sounds like a drip.

Have a great Sunday

Onelifeonly · 28/04/2024 10:51

There's a fine line between being a people pleaser (we all are to a greater or lesser extent, only psychopaths don't care) and confronting everything you don't agree with or that annoys you.

To choose which side of the line to take you need to assess the situation and weigh up the harms and benefits. OP has decided the harm to the man she is/ was dating is of less concern than the satisfaction of berating one of his friend's girlfriends.

To make the call she made, clearly OP didn't care too much about Carl in the first place.

Gettingbysomehow · 28/04/2024 10:42

I'm like you I'd have had to say something.
I couldn't be with a massive people pleaser it would drive me nuts.

LineMadeByWalking · 28/04/2024 10:39

Carl sounds mildly wet, and overly involved in the relationship drama of his friends , but you sound like one of those tiresomely chippy, aggressive types who ‘speaks as they find’ and goes into attack mode under the impression they are ‘standing up for themselves’. I imagine he’ll break it off with you, anyway — from his POV, someone he’s only recently started dating got into a verbal altercation with his friend’s fiancée about someone she’s never met.