To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

I think what we are seeing across western Europe and America is simply the decay of the end of capitalism.
Certainly I'm no hippie but I truly believe we have reached the apex of what capitalism can give us. And it has given us a lot. In many ways it has liberated us, it gave us social mobility and equal rights to the best of our capacity. It created an open floor for creativity and international exchange.
But now we need a new model because it has become the serpent that eats its own tail.
Political parties across the west are struggling because the old models like socialism won't work either.
We need a new concept for a new era, and maybe like with many revolutions we have seen some heads just roll.
Unfortunately it's possible that because we all have just enough now to keep us somewhat content, like "the underclass" as it was named earlier in the thread, a revolution might be stillborn.
In earlier times révolution came about due to desperation. But are the masses today feeling the same despair to the same degree?
Revolutions can only happen when people feel they have genuinely nothing to lose.
The problem is that with capitalism we are given just enough to make us feel we have everything to lose.

But far more than 5% of the population can't go out in their communities due to fear of violence, harassment, robbery etc. It's certainly affecting their human rights and they haven't done anything to deserve those restrictions.

How about yobs learn to behave themselves then their human rights won't be at risk? Too radical?

I don't know why councils want to keep grotty town centres going. They should be scrapped and the buildings used as residential places that the councils could rent out. Just have a couple of essential things like a mini supermarket, bus station, whatever. No more gangsta money laundering dives, Turkish barbers, nail places etc.

There needs to be places where drug addicts can go and do what they do in an environment away from ordinary people so the streets can be reclaimed. If you're going to get off your face, then you're required to do it in an appropriate setting. They can fight, spit, vomit, scream, swear, fall over etc. in such a place. Employ licensed bouncers to keep an eye on them and clear up the blood afterwards.

Sure Start centres with practical parenting classes are exactly the sort of thing that was improving outcomes. Austerity killed it.

There's no irreversible change in the human condition that couldn't be influenced by a less cruel ideology in charge.

Yes, and we are moving to Shropshire within the year!

How people describe these places now are similar to what happened to a lot of northern industrial cities (Liverpool/Glasgow/Newcastle etc) and pit towns during Thatcher's reign of terror.

Some of those places are better off now than then after recovering from that era, but others who may have done okay with Thatcher are now really struggling. 40 years of neoliberalism has come home to roost The liberalism dream is dead.

Pubs are in decline here. I think that adds to a lot of animosity online. When communities met up together and had face to face discussion it was easier to see a person's point of view

Part of this is due to govt policy in this country, alcohol duty in pubs. I read the other day that the average pint in a German pub was around €3.5 euros. It’s 7 bloody quid in a lot of places here.

It’s no wonder people sit at home on their own with a 4 pack from Tesco for five quid instead.

Removing human rights from 5% of the population is not reasonable. It's fascist.

@Loulou599 I like your insights into our country and also your idea for social space. There's something in that.

Pubs are in decline here. I think that adds to a lot of animosity online. When communities met up together and had face to face discussion it was easier to see a person's point of view. You got to know people and have your own corners rounded off. Now people are in little silos in their own home, sending out for groceries, clothes, take away meals....people aren't so used to being humans out in society as they were.

It's just people being priced out of city centres is all.
These sorts of people have always been around, but they used to be in the cities and estates. Now that even bullshit parts of cities have been massively gentrified, they have been pushed out to market towns. Consider yourself luckily you've only just met them.

No, I must've had some form of PTSD when I first moved abroad as I feared groups of teens but there isn't antisocial behaviour here like that. It seems to be a UK problem.

This is exactly how you get totalitarianism though. Actual real dissent-forbidden, no right of appeal, your individuality is worthless, type of totalitarianism.

Problems go on and on, and the same few people profit and profit. Things go so far and then a strong man cones along, whether he be Lenin or Hitler. He sorts things out, enough to appease a sizeable portion of the population, and if eggs get broken in the making of this omelette- hey, eggs were being broken anyway and all that was being made in that case was a mess.
It's not one bit surprising.
Though I hate to hear actual fascism being conflated with reasonable calls to sort things out.
Can sort things out before radical surgery

Retail is dead, and there's no going back imo.
The future of town centres is spaces for interaction. Restaurants, cafes, bars but maybe also concepts we haven't invented yet. Just as coworking spaces were a whole new concept.
What other meeting spaces could we create for our town centres that would be a brand new idea to fill a need?

Personally I have often thought (bear with me because I know it sounds crazy) maybe our modern lives could do with a whole new idea of: "rent a parent". Imagine a space where you could go and it would be like a cross between a church, a yherapy centre, a family home, and a community centre. Somewhere where people could just be and feel supported somehow by relaxing. Like a big massive living room. Maybe like pubs would have once been but without the alcohol. Maybe there could be like big huge armchairs you could pay to use (also subsidised passes) and the idea is you just go there with your book, or phone, and you engage in some activities. It could become like coworking spaces but for leisure time, and accessible to everyone

Oh no I understand, I was just wondering where it was, to be honest my first thought was Mansfield. I don't live in a particularly great area myself but I feel posh when I'm in Mansfield 😂

@WoshPank you have a point. Many of the large scale town retail areas aren’t really going to be able to cope with the way people buy things now I know. But some or maybe many can, if the incentive is put there for smaller businesses? Idk.

A big element of this thread is about social cohesion, and how having shops and people out and about buying (even small) things has a knock on positive effect. Wish there was more to encourage that, and less isolation, getting everything plonked on your doorstep and not interacting with each other.

True, the antisocial behaviour is largely down to being in extreme poverty though. They don't choose to mill about with nothing to do. The antisocial behaviour is a consequence of it. I'm not saying people should be free to be a nuisance, but it is clearly closely tied to being deprived.
There are a few factors that have led to the death of the high street and it is a shame. I feel your pain OP, my hometown (where I no longer live as I moved to a city) is a shadow of what it once was. It makes me really sad for the local people because they haven't done anything to deserve this. Well, a lot of them voted for Brexit which probably didn't help but is by no means the only factor. Even in the city where I live now, although there is much much more of a 'buzz' in town, good atmosphere, plenty of shops etc, there are a LOT of troubled people roaming the streets. You have to feel sorry for them, they have been allowed to fall behind when they are clearly in need of support.

I've not been to Bristol since about 1995, but that sounds like exactly the sort of vacuum filling I was describing.

Which town is this? I'm born and raised in Nottingham and the surrounds and know it well, some areas are worse than others but I really can't think of anywhere that's as bad as you're describing.

I think it would do something, but am sceptical that we're going to see anything like a return to high street retail as it was. There's just been a shift in mindset. Unless and until we see the footfall levels, I think we need to assume alternative plans need to be made for some of the old retail based spaces in town centres.