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Original poster

To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

644 replies

AbstractThought · 26/04/2024 16:05

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

OP posts:
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Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 14:12

i for one am not in the mood for another Robespierre!

OP posts:
Barbadossunset · 27/04/2024 14:07

The revolution...Well, its great that that happened

LouLou if you think it was great that the French Revolution happened when it did, do you think it would be great if it happened today (in UK, obvs.)?

SleepQuest33 · 27/04/2024 13:59

There has been a decline in the value of a family unit as well.

on the drug front, every other TV program I watch has scene of drug use as if it was normal and expected. It’s being normalised! If only people knew the devastation they are causing by taking drugs, not only to their own bodies, but indirectly to countries producing the stuff! I wish there was more education about it.

LuluBlakey1 · 27/04/2024 13:53

HelloGoodby · 26/04/2024 22:28

Can I ask where the square built in the 70’s will be? Please.
I still enjoy a visit to Newcastle, enjoy Grainger market.
Durham city is a disgrace, but the cathedral is still beautiful.

Show quote history

Newcastle's city centre square set to become "a foodie paradise"
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/news-opinion/a-foodie-paradise-newcastle-city-29058340?utm_source=app

Princess Square- it is forgotten now. No one goes there.

Newcastle's city centre square set to become "a foodie paradise"

Princess Square is set to undergo a significant makeover that may turn the area into a foodie haven, but the project has alarmed nearby residents of the Bewick Court tower block.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/news-opinion/a-foodie-paradise-newcastle-city-29058340?utm_source=app

suburburban · 27/04/2024 13:47

@AbstractThought

Yes definitely similar in my family

hairbearbunches · 27/04/2024 13:44

Loulou599 · 27/04/2024 12:53

The old dichotomy of left and right no longer applies to our world IMO. The new dichotomy is localism vs globalism

But that kind of is left vs right. Left being localism. Proper left that is, not Blair and now Starmer’s centre right left 🙄

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:43

OutOfTheHouse · 27/04/2024 13:40

On another note a woman I know is really struggling with her little boy (I teach in his school). She has been given a place on a parenting class but it’s online. She doesn’t have WiFi at home, her phone data plan isn’t anything like enough to handle a 2 hour video call. It’s in the evening so the library is shut. She can’t do it. Moreover if it had been in a community centre or local hall then she would have the chance to meet other parents and get some contact.

I will presume it's a minority (although I don't know) but it seems a lot of people are being left behind. You would hope that something like this could be resolved easy enough by the school/council providing her with a temporary device.

We do need a renaissance of 'human contact'.

I wonder how this works in other European countries? It isn't something I have looked into really.

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OutOfTheHouse · 27/04/2024 13:40

On another note a woman I know is really struggling with her little boy (I teach in his school). She has been given a place on a parenting class but it’s online. She doesn’t have WiFi at home, her phone data plan isn’t anything like enough to handle a 2 hour video call. It’s in the evening so the library is shut. She can’t do it. Moreover if it had been in a community centre or local hall then she would have the chance to meet other parents and get some contact.

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:37

Crikeyalmighty · 27/04/2024 13:27

@AbstractThought Ha- I can feel a lot of daily mail reading women bristling at the fact they are working class Tory done good!!

We are all WC to a point, unless connected to generations of one traditional class structure.
Most born since WW2 moved up via education and access to culture, becoming professors, doctors, lawyers. I was born middle class but my heritage goes back to WC, even if that is a great grandparent. Many wealthy 'working' people in the north especially made good from the industrial revolution, yet were from more modest backgrounds prior to that.

I did a lot of research into Beatrix Potter at uni, a similar case there - humble northern grandparents with her father making wealth down south. Beatrix born securely MC.

Tabloids are a muddle though, in reality you can only make assumptions about readership.

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OutOfTheHouse · 27/04/2024 13:37

My town centre is the same. Some of it is Covid. We had a lot of offices just outside the centre so during lunch breaks etc people would pop in to get things from shops, supermarkets and cafes but a lot of them started working from home so the footfall went down.
Now it’s empty shops, drug users and homeless people. There is a couple of areas that are nice, including a street that is all independent shops, but the rest is crap.

I think a lot of the problem is a lack of shame. People in the past were poor but they looked after their houses and local area.

I was in Germany a couple of weeks ago in a small city. It was heaving. Every shop unit full, cafes busy, people properly dressed (ie actual clothes not pyjamas). There was a visible police presence. We saw one man running down the street and someone else running after him shouting to stop him. A couple of by standers tackled him. I went into a shop, bought something and came back out by which time the police had arrived and removed him. Yes there was homelessness, especially around the train station, and there was graffiti, but no litter.

Lonelycrab · 27/04/2024 13:35

Such a mess of so many interlinked problems, chickens have now come home to roost, it’s hard to know where to start. If I had to pick one word to sum it up, it would be hopelessness. Hopelessness for an increasing number of young and the less affluent.

I think a large part of this in the young, and the reason they just don’t care anymore is that getting (even renting) a place is so desperately expensive, ditto running a car. Late 80s aged 17 I left home, got what would be now a MW job and soon after rented a flat with some friends. I ran a cheap crap car, and could afford to go out and enjoy myself a couple of times a week in the pub or club. It was tight, sure, but doable. So actually working, even a crap job bought you some real independence, and fun and it was worthwhile.

Other friends went to uni to get a degree, but without the horrendous debt one is now burdened with.

Both of those have got to be nigh on impossible with rents and other costs/debts these days, (unless you have rich family to help) so more and more young adults think fuvk it, might as well go and get wasted, cause some aggro, some might start knocking out 20 bags of weed and Charlie instead, because there’s no hope of much better coming along, and it’s more exciting than sitting staring at the wall all day at your parents where you’re probably going to be stuck, if you’re lucky.

There are many other factors at play too, but I think (lack of) affordability with housing and the cost life in general is a large part of it. More affordable social housing and rent controls might help. Property and rents are now out of the reach of so many, especially the younger so many are giving up caring anymore. I probably would if I was 16 again and looking at my options.

Some of that is probably simplistic and I’m not claiming that this is the entire cause of the demise, I’ll probably get flamed now, but I do think the prospects of achieving much for the younger generations (unless they have family support) is looking more and more bleak by the minute.

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:30

Rough doesn't always correlate with 'poor' here, the worst streets are heaving with litter and household rubbish. Bins are overloaded and left behind. Some of the bins are becoming a safety hazard. I am talking two vehicle families/couples with dogs, holidays, etc. There's definitely a contingent who don't give a shit, who shout and create disturbance constantly. It isn't economic in this example, more like a 'poverty of care'.

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Crikeyalmighty · 27/04/2024 13:27

@AbstractThought Ha- I can feel a lot of daily mail reading women bristling at the fact they are working class Tory done good!!

suburburban · 27/04/2024 13:25

JamSandle · 27/04/2024 12:57

Many good points raised on this thread.

I think also people's sense of pride has been eroded.

I say this without judgement but many people do not dress nicely (not expensively mind, but nicely), they do not eat well or nourish their bodies, they do not use manners. The sense of community even in poor areas (washing the steps in council properties) is largely gone.

People do not take pride in their environment whether its there own home or their larger community.

You see people throw litter on the floor or spit on the ground or throw cigarettes and gum onto the floor. Not thinking/caring that this drags down the environment we live in, which impacts how we feel. And it's a vicious cycle.

Of course part of the reason for a loss of pride may be mental health, loneliness, addiction, poverty, but there's also an apathy.

My dad grew up poor but always had a sense of 'I put on my best clothes and make an effort for the day ahead.' It's not really about the clothes per say, it's the thought process that says 'I deserve to make an effort and take pride in myself/my community'.

Definitely this idea

So much fly tipping as well

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:24

I thought fentanyl was already here?

I have this horrible vision of further ghettoisation, towns strewn across the country heaving with drug and related health problems, largely out of reach of useful services. Anyone who can will leave. It never had to come to this.

I don't know how it can be avoided or fixed, now. As a country we are all so very different in our beliefs and approaches. Politics in any form seems to have no idea. Nor do they seem to care. We go around in circles voting left or right or something inbetween yet nothing ever changes. It grows worse. No one is prepared to tackle it. No one bursts through with ideas that won't harm at good chunk of the population.

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LiquoriceAllsort2 · 27/04/2024 13:22

tangycheesythings · 27/04/2024 13:17

It's 50x stronger than heroin and instantly addictive, easy to get on the street in America. The trafficking of it is increasing exponentially worldwide.

Dr Gupta explains the global risk
https://news.sky.com/story/the-million-dollar-streets-strewn-with-bodies-contorted-by-the-effects-of-fentanyl-12871961

I'm really scared of this drug and we've lived through the heroin era - if it catches hold it's going to be far, far worse

Show quote history

Also it is so cheap to manufacture that a lot of people overdose because the dealers use it to bulk out other drugs.

That is the biggest problem

tangycheesythings · 27/04/2024 13:17

Loulou599 · 27/04/2024 12:16

What makes fentanyl worse than all the other horror drugs we have known our streets?

It's 50x stronger than heroin and instantly addictive, easy to get on the street in America. The trafficking of it is increasing exponentially worldwide.

Dr Gupta explains the global risk
https://news.sky.com/story/the-million-dollar-streets-strewn-with-bodies-contorted-by-the-effects-of-fentanyl-12871961

I'm really scared of this drug and we've lived through the heroin era - if it catches hold it's going to be far, far worse

The million dollar streets strewn with bodies contorted by the effects of fentanyl

Drug-related deaths surged by 41% in San Francisco in the first three months of this year - with an average of one person dying of an accidental overdose every 10 hours. The drug-ravaged Tenderloin district is worst affected.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-million-dollar-streets-strewn-with-bodies-contorted-by-the-effects-of-fentanyl-12871961

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:14

Crikeyalmighty · 27/04/2024 13:07

@AbstractThought whilst I do think we have a class of folk that seem completely feral- you cannot say this is all down to working class tabloids- ( not all those are social minded either- the sun certainly isn't) the Express, Telegraph and Mail have raised the 'hating anyone who isn't in to garden centres, the Tory's , Royal Family and nice little village fetes' into an art form. That's not good either.

I'd call the Mail and Express 'working class tory done good'. The more conservative old school curtain twitchers Grin
I am more concerned about how our tabloids absolutely DO exploit the less educated, more insular citizens, those less likely to have travelled, live in less diverse areas, less likely to have worked overseas or studied beyond high school - pretty much an older more traditional leaning generation. None of the tabloids support an underclass, but make a lot of fun and repulsive pokes at them to entertain their target audience.

The tabloids rely on knee jerk, emotion responses every time. Not a great source of information.

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NoisySnail · 27/04/2024 13:13

@JamSandle those people still feel a sense of investment in society.
We are talking about people who would not be able to navigate moving or immigrating.

Crikeyalmighty · 27/04/2024 13:11

@AbstractThought I disagree though about education- I grew up in a midlands mining town and the miners were proud in many cases of their knowledge in literature, art, poetry etc - nowadays people would just take the piss- we celebrate the stupid- pay them vast sums to look stupid on TV etc

SOxon · 27/04/2024 13:10

hairbearbunches · 27/04/2024 12:37

@AbstractThought We have become a country of spoilt, angry toddlers with no incentive to change. I think this is largely exacerbated and encouraged by the working class tabloids.

I’ll see your ‘’working class’ tabloids’ and raise you one over privileged semi aristocratic Boris Johnson for whom the rules didn’t apply. The fish rots from the head down. How many of our current government have faced no consequences for absolutely appalling behaviour? Some of them should be in bloody prison frankly. Johnson was the biggest, spoilt toddler of them all. The problems in this country can be laid at his class’s door, not the working class.

who now lives in a house with a moat

Crikeyalmighty · 27/04/2024 13:07

@AbstractThought whilst I do think we have a class of folk that seem completely feral- you cannot say this is all down to working class tabloids- ( not all those are social minded either- the sun certainly isn't) the Express, Telegraph and Mail have raised the 'hating anyone who isn't in to garden centres, the Tory's , Royal Family and nice little village fetes' into an art form. That's not good either.

Original poster
AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:07

Haveagreatday24 · 27/04/2024 12:54

The next town along from mine (about 20 mins drive) is like you describe. People are drinking and shouting and swearing on the streets.

There is a pub in the town centre where homeless people and ex-prisoners have been housed, a house for alcoholics and several houses for young people who have a criminal record. I do appreciate all these people need to be housed and supported. The problem is they are concentrated in one area of the town.

I am also not looking down on any of these people as I have a family member who is in one of these categories and I visit them regularly as they need the support. What I have seen is absolutely shocking tbh. It is not a safe environment for them.

I have written to four different MPs and they have all passed the buck and I haven’t received a decent response from any of them. I am sure they would be shocked too but I doubt they would ever visit such an area to see it with their own eyes.

Our council allocates these places to the worst areas, where a good percentage of tax payers don't have to witness it. Any spare spot of wasteland nr the town centre ends up turning into a warehouse, a stinking skip or a rehab complex. And with the best will in the world, it brings no end of trouble for those who live beside it.
Environment is a huge factor in mental health. Otherwise healthy people are suffering due to their exposure to constant misery, crime and decay.
Perhaps if our council really gave a damn it would put one in every area, so that we are all in it together, making it work.

They only clean or maintain streets in higher tax bands here. It's so very obvious if you look around.

OP posts:
JamSandle · 27/04/2024 13:05

AbstractThought · 27/04/2024 13:01

I think a large part of the problem is education and the wilful avoidance of it by a good section of UK culture. We used to be proud of it, respect it. Now it's for 'idiots'. This isn't helping. Imagine the days before education for the non wealthy, they would have been in awe of what we now trample over.

There is no easy or polite way to put this, but I see children born into violence and extreme mental health issues here. Unless one of those kids develops a very singular and strong defence mechanism, it isn't going to thrive socially or in any workplace in the near future. If large swathes of people reject or cannot access decent education, this will create a terrible debt for the future. And not just academically; we are talking critical thinking, confidence, problem solving, social awareness, innovation and creativity.
This isn't criticising 'poor people', it is a huge judgement against our system, one which ignores the growing issues and only cares about monitoring their shopping habits and selling their data. Business and profit matter far more than human life here, now. Anything goes if it can make a profit. A person's well being is much further down our list of cultural priorities.
This will show, and it's already here. It's like we've created a monster yet don't want to claim ownership of it.

I agree. We have an anti-intellectual bent here. It doesn't help that uni is also horribly expensive and many are priced out of it.

SOxon · 27/04/2024 13:05

Alarmingghhh · 27/04/2024 12:30

I think it wouldn't hurt this country to get back to a less care bear vibe and a more crack of the whip law and order approach. I'm not suggesting nazi Germany, but you know you mention France, when you go there you see the police strolling around with guns. The French police look like you fuck with them and they can take you down, same in italy.
If our country feels lawless its because it is

PLUS France has three distinct but unified Law Enforcements, dealing with their own particular responsibilities.
Loulou must despair

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