Students to be taken out of school for holidays

I've posted in the petition section in case it's not allowed here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/5063313-allow-students-to-be-taken-out-of-school-for-two-weeks-a-year-without-penalty

It's up to 117k already!

There's a petition running on this topic.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/658365

Ok?

@CelesteCunningham Yes I do have to also pay for before and after school childcare. My day starts at 8.30 and finishes at 4pm.

Where on earth do you think I've said you get paid?

You don't pay for childcare during the school holidays. I do. You probably don't pay for childcare after school either. I do.

That's fine, I don't think you should somehow be penalised because of my eye watering childcare bills.

I don't know why you think I shouldn't get a cheap holiday just because you can't.

If you want to start a thread complaining that teachers and TAs don't get paid enough then fine, I'll be right there agreeing with you. But it's nothing to do with this thread.

@CelesteCunningham You are aware we don't get paid for the "extra" holiday we get? We only get statutory holiday pay the same as everyone else.

I know that but I don't see what it has to do with other parents taking their DC out.

Term time holiday plus holiday childcare Vs no childcare plus school holiday vacation probably doesn't have much in it financially anyway!

All jobs have pluses and minuses. Highly restricted holidays are a minus of yours.

@CelesteCunningham But the difference with school staff is we are never permitted to have ANY leave whatsoever outside of the school holidays. And a lot of jobs in education are poorly paid so this means we simply can't afford to take our own children on holiday.

I mean, I'd be more than happy for school staff to have annual leave to use during the school year, but lots of adults have restrictions on when they can take their leave. I can't go away when I'm teaching or when we have exam boards (February, June and August). Accountant FIL and BIL work over Christmas and 7 days a week in Jan. Some people have to work on Christmas Day. That's life.

Yes, let's allow you all to take your kids out of school to go on lovely holidays for two weeks when it's affordable, but as an HLTA on £11.60 p/h with 3 kids of my own don't worry about me! I'll just carry on teaching your kids!

Yes exactly.

It's a bit like saying teachers should pay for school holiday childcare because the rest of us have to and otherwise it isn't fair.

Every job has its own balance of pros and cons.

I don't take my children out of school in term time but "poor teachers can't" isn't why

Sorry but teachers know this is the case when choosing to get into the industry.

I know you can argue that parents also know this when choosing to enroll their child in a school, but many of us also know that we will face a fine plus make up the time lost and factor this into our decision (still cheaper than booking a holiday during the holidays).

School staff know that they won't get the time off and it will impact their wages and potential future employment.

Me - I’ve posted several times. All of my posts were called silly/unfair/pretentious(?)

I agree, teachers' families suffer from inflated costs too and don't have the choice! I know an academy trust that have introduced a "wellbeing day" for teachers to take one day a year for themselves. I think as a society we are embracing that a lot more people can work flexibly but that would be so impractical to apply to school settings. Anyway, we are going off topic here but I think as a society the idea of flexibility and prioritising wellbeing over productivity are becoming a lot more normalised.

Personally I wouldn't take them out of school for a week or more for a holiday. They are already hardly there. Notice that kids also get birthdays off as well! I want my kids to do well and good attendance is key to this. Plus my kids would worry about what they were missing as they actually like school.

Do the school staff get to take holidays in school time too?!! Excellent!

I don't agree with taking children out of school for holidays on principle for a few reasons but I think the missed learning is relative, even if they have 100% attendance they won't remember everything they learn in school, they are sometimes away due to illness, and things get revised. Holidays can also be great learning experiences but I also think it is unfair on the children to take them out on holiday and sends a mixed message. But the worst thing in my opinion is that prices in school holidays are ridiculous in the UK, not just a bit more expensive but double the cost. It is unfair on families and puts many in a difficult position.

I missed 2 weeks every year through primary school. My parents run a small business and always give their employees first dibs on the school holidays so it was term time or nothing for us. To be able spend with time my parents which, as they were working so hard, was rare and precious had just as significant impact on my life outcomes as learning about roman mosaics. Probably because of that I feel pretty relaxed about my own DC missing school for a family holiday if and when the opportunity arose. Which it won't this year! I also run a tight ship on sickness absence... because what working parents doesn't?

Unsurprisingly I think the criminal charges that are going to be introduced from August are ridiculous and total over kill and aren't going to really get to the nub of the attendance issues or increase academic attainment.

It's just not and you must know there's more nuance than that. For one thing, as a parent who is a teacher I'm as qualified as her class teacher to teach my child and indeed I can teach her more in a day 1:1 than a teacher of a class of 30 can.
At just turned 4 before starting school, my daughter could do 90% of the Reception curriculum so her missing the odd day really did make no difference to her education. She knows from all the other work we do that education is massively important. As I said in my previous post, it's the day-to-day work (reading, phonics, maths, just talking to your child - which very main parents fail to take any decent interest in) that supports your child 's education, not what you do, or don't do, in one week of the year.

@Octomama I mean catch up as in the knowledge they need during primary school to be level with their peers at that time in their life. Lots of children manage to get by and illness cannot be helped but holidays can.

It's particularly true if your child isn't the top of the class and struggles to grasp new concepts. In that case its really unfair on the child.

@FcukTheDay I totally agree. Also, it's often the dcs who don't read at home or do their times tables that are the ones who are taken out for holidays. I remember going on a school trip last year and I sat on the coach with the mum of the weakest child in my class, who had missed two weeks in the autumn term due to a family holiday, that her dh insisted on the holiday because 'year 1 didn't really matter' 😡.

I am a primary TA and you're correct. The gaps are never really filled as the children do not really catch up, as parents you may not notice but educators do

@FcukTheDay but the "not really catching up", what does it mean in practice and does it matter?

My son was off school for weeks with glandular fever, his GCSE results were very good, in line with my other children. He did a bit of home study when well enough. Sure there were whole topics he missed and will never fully "catch up" to the extent of his peers who were there - but overall he knew enough.

And for people who do not take their children out during Y6 or SATS week, it really is too late by that point. There is about only a tiny bit of new learning in Y6, the rest they should already know and should be quickly recapped. It becomes obvious who has gaps.

Showing your kids that a holiday is more important than school is crappy parenting.

As a GP, I see lots of parenting which is much worse than taking kids out of school. There are degrees. But taking kids out of school in term time for a holiday is setting a poor example and is poor parenting.

I am a primary TA and you're correct. The gaps are never really filled as the children do not really catch up, as parents you may not notice but educators do.

The child then feels disheartened when its recapped the following academic year as all their peers have knowledge of the subject and they don't.