There have been plenty before and after Marilyn Monroe!

Just remember even Marilyn Monroe wasn't born looking like that!

It's not the best photo of her that you've posted in your first post, OP. I watched a 3 part documentary about her some months back. There was lots of video footage. Quite a bit where she had no makeup (or not heavy glamour makeup anyway), posing and having fun on the beach. I'd never seen the fuss before seeing that programme, but watching it, as others have said, she just had IT. Call it charisma, or the X factor, or whatever, but she just had something that makes you not take your eyes off her.

And she'd had a nose job. She had style though.

She actually wasn't all natural.

She had a nose job, chin implant, breast implants.
Plus while she didn't have a fake tan, she certainly bleached the crap out of her hair.

I love Marilyn but like others, even back then plastic surgery was still a thing.

I'm sorry but Lila Moss Hack is not 'a knockout' in any way, shape or form. Like Sydney Sweeney, she has a plain, doughy face.

and Rita Hayworth - I mean there is a certain glamour about old Hollywood

Sophia Loren, unbelievably beautiful.

Marylin Monroe WAS beautiful though. A breathtakingly natural beauty. Sexy and stunning from head to toe. Not a scrap of botox or fillers or fake tan or teeth whitening. GORGEOUS!

I have to agree with a pp about Gisele Bundchen too. Striking and beautiful! One of the last proper supermodels to appear.

As for the woman off Masterchef being beautiful ........... (Fateha) ..? Just googled her as I never heard of her ... Errr well I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 😬 It's clear that beauty is subjective when someone says Princess Diana is ordinary and Fateha is beautiful!

Meghan Markle AND Kate Middleton are both very pretty. Different pretty. Like Debbie Harry and Grace Kelly. Both stunning, but look different.

Bella and Gigi Hadid are pretty but I think they are overrated. Gigi is the prettier of the two. Ditto Halle Berry. Attractive but not stunning IMO. Angelina Jolie is stunning IMO, as is Naomi Campbell. The most stunning of the old school catwalk models (apart from Gisele) is Kate Moss IMO. Kate's daughter is a knockout too. Also the model Bar Refaeli is really pretty too

I also think Sydney Sweeney is very pretty, but some people think she is as plain as a lump of dough. Completely subjective. As a pp said, Bella Hadid is classed as one of the most beautiful women in the world, but in my eyes she is rather ordinary and average. 6/10.

The prettiest woman I have seen on TV for a long time is Marcia Wallace - the West End star who was on Big Brother. Vibrant, beautiful, and talented. Super attractive IMO.

No. I think sex appeal is just an it factor some people have.

Adrien Brody. Not classically handsome but sexy.

I couldn't agree less. She is a nepo baby who would be nowhere without her connections. Her sister is marginally better but not very much.

Yes totally underrated and not taken seriously - even on this thread - waved away and dismissed as a sexy pointless fluff thing and not a talented complex human being.

She was beautiful and talented - beauty is subjective though

I thought Lauren Bacall was beautiful

She is gorgeous to me. Plus her presence as a model and on the runway is incredible!

That's absolute nonsense. That just shows that these lists are a crock of crap, nobody I know considers Bella Hadid even marginally attractive.

She was a great comedic actress - every time I watch Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, I’m newly impressed. The line that makes me howl every time is when she tells her character’s future father-in-law, “I’m not marrying him for his money, I’m marrying him for your money.” 😂

Great example. I don't find Sydney beautiful at all, in fact she is barely even pretty IMO, but she is definitely considered a big sex symbol.

As a pp said - I think if you’d seen her in real life you’d know what people were going on about.
That photo isn’t a flattering one but some people have an amazing aura in RL. Lots of people publicly said that about MM. And Diana actually.

My dd is one of the beautiful people (doesn’t get it from me, I’m ugly) literally stops traffic and people stare at her wherever she is, but if I were to show you a photo you’d think she was just another pretty girl. She has something that comes across in person and people (men women and children) are drawn to her.

Isn't being 'sexy' just being suggestive (whilst also being quite good looking)?

It really does show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Giselle's ok but nowhere near most beautiful IMO. I also think that Marylin was seen more as a sex symbol than as a beauty.

If you want to "measure" the beauty , it's Bella Hadid . She has the highest score in the Golden Ratio on most lists.

She had sex appeal and vulnerability.
You can be gorgeous and not sexy, and you can be unattractive and sexy.

Marilyn was very very pretty and incredibly sexy.
Sex appeal is one of those things you have or don't.

Angelina Jolie is gorgeous but she's also sexy. Even if someone doesn't find her attractive she still is very sexy. Even speaking at UN events she's sexy.

I think Kate and Meghan are both VERY beautiful. I wouldn't say either of them are very sexy though. I mean I'm sure they are with their husbands but they don't exude sex appeal.

Halle Berry falls into gorgeous and sexy as well. She was always sexy.

Marilyn was also the first women to found her own production company! She was a force despite her vulnerability.

I could never understand the fuss over Elizabeth Taylor, a pretty child but that’s about it for me.

I don't think MM is much to look at. She just looked slutty at a time when most women didn't. These days we call it old school glamour. If she lived today with all these love island types prancing around almost naked no one would even notice her.

Some eminent philosophers have written that it isn't entirely subjective at least, that there are standards of beauty. It seems you can sort of point to it.