Labour pledges to re-nationalise railways - Is it time for utilities too?

Utilities don't make mega profits though. You are confusing generators with providers. Gas and electricity are traded commodities, over which governments have little control.

Gas and electric are no where near as regulated and have been allowed to make huge profits.
But anyone who understands the water industry knows nationalisation won't help.

Standards have improved massively since privatisation.....anything happening now was significantly worse back then (with the exception of weather and climate issues)
The government regultors have (between them) made ot difficult for companies to invest in making things better than they are....because they reckoned customers didn't want to pay for environmental improvements.

Shareholder profits look huge I know....but without them companies wouldn't be able to raise credit to spend lump sums on improvements so unless the government is going to start funding those things investment and improvement will stall under privatisation....and you will have one government department regulating another and marking their own homework.

I'd much prefer them to start with utilities - the big companies are raking in mega profits whilst pensioners and the poor can't afford to put the heating on.

I'm not fussed about trains - since Dr Beeching closed all the railway stations in my area I'm not sure if I have ever used one. It's irrelevant to me who is running them.

Yes i agree, which is why i said I expect we will see very little difference.

Sarahconnor1 · Today 12:56

Anyone who remembers British rail won't be over excited about nationalised rail.

When Stagecoach walked away from the East Coast Mainline, fares went down and reliability and passenger satisfaction went up. It also returned £600 million to the Treasury, rather than having to be subsidised.

British Rail was run into the ground, with poor financing, probably in order to get the public onside for privatisation.

I honestly find it hard to believe that British Rail was worse than the train services now. In what way?

My recollection. Very old rolling stock, dirty trains, cancellations were frequent, as was strike action.

Labour are not committing to reducing prices either just simplifying. So I expect we will see very little difference

Much like the creation of the NHS the government would be put into a compromise situation as the technical skills and even understanding of the regulations involved is very much in the hands of private companies and individuals, that's just installation, design and maintenance. Ignoring preexisting contracts and infrastructure ownership. Even where some railway employees are FOR privatisation (as some were of the NHS' creation) it doesn't mean that various organisations would have any interest in negotiating on that

Welsh Water is not for profit and Transport for Wales is fully owned by Welsh Government… that said chronic under investment in the past has led to the problems of today and neither are perfect. For example if Welsh Water were to rebuild the wastewater network from scratch it would cost £30bn.

I am happier that Welsh Water do not have shareholders to worry about and are required to invest back in the business, services and customer bills. Also they only take £27 a month from me which is very reasonable.

TfW a slightly different kettle of fish, again chronic under investment and past line closures have led to an antiquated, patchy service. At least they are quick to pay out compensation, in December 2022 and January 2023 I made six trips from the capital to the west and ended up not having to pay for a penny as the service was so terrible!

As with lots of things in Wales, the idea is sound, the execution… isn’t.

The reason they are focussing on the train service is because its an issue that is close to the heart of the traditionally Tory-voting home counties, whose votes are now up for grabs and who have lots of council seats and police commissioner posts coming up for election in May. Places like Surrey Heath, and Epsom which have been safe Tory seats forever are up for grabs and train service and (especially) Thames Water, are target-rich battlegrounds for Labour and the Lib Dems.

The government put in more money around the time of privatisation to make it appear to customers that trains were better run under privatised companies.

As I moved from being a student to working I learn this was a complete lie. Especially as I had to deal with franchises run by the bus companies e.g. Stagecoach.

I'd prefer they started with water. At least with trains in some cases we have a choice of operator and route. I have no choice but to pay those bastards at Thames Water who have shamefully destroyed our rivers and coastal waters while paying out dividends to shareholders.

I honestly find it hard to believe that British Rail was worse than the train services now. In what way?

One of the best things about this proposal is the requirement to offer the best price ticket as standard. It's bloody exhausting always having to be hyper vigilant in making sure you're not paying over the odds

No, it's owned by a variety of pension funds, most of them overseas, and a smattering of investment funds, also overseas. The real damage was done by an Australian bank who ran up $18Bn of debt on Thames water, while paying themselves dividends that were hundreds of times the profits (funded by the debt). Then did a runner. Basically, legalised money laundering.

Also with climate change I think we also need to bring natural resources into public ownership.

The utility companies generally don’t own natural resources. They generate power using purchased gas etc. and looking forward, with renewables it’s less of an issue because you can’t “own” the wind- you can only own the windy land to stick a turbine on and it’s not realistic for the government to buy all that up. However, It is likely that generation will become much more fragmented in the next 2 decades just because renewables facilitates it, so there will be less of an oligopoly. Depending on grid infrastructure you’ll either see the emergence of “prosumers” or mini grids.

I'm not sure we should compare anything from the early 1980s with modern day services. Technology and customer expectations have changed dramatically and much of the modernisation would probably have happened anyway without privatisation.

I disagree with utilities. We have had some of the cheapest energy in the UK for years before the COL crises. We've got rid of coal, and rely more on renewables. Utility companies are very competitive, and actually don't make massive profits.

Water on the other hand..... It never made sense, as there is no competition and our systems are old and creaking. The very nature of our mixed drains means we will need billions and billions, to mitigate an increased population and heavier rain events.

Rail vastly improved post British Rail which was frankly shit. We have suffered from a lack of modernisation, much if it resisted by the unions. Sad, but true.

And nurseries and care homes please

Is it not the case with utilities such as gas and electricity the government can set up non-profit companies to compete with the ones in existence?

British rail yes I remember it well, if you wanted to go somewhere you went down to the station bought a ticket and went there. Nowadays you have to plan well in advance in order to try and get a good ticket price🤬

The government already quietly takes franchises back.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/about-us/company/company-information

In 2018 the cost of nationalising the UK's energy, water, rail, and mail sectors was calculated at anywhere between £176 billion and £306 billion. AFAIK, no-one has redone this calculation more recently.

All Labour are proposing at the moment is nationalising the running of the trains, not the infrastructure (railway lines, signalling, stations and so on). Because that is organised on a contract basis, costs would have to cover setting up a body to run the trains and then leasing / buying, maintaining and repairing and then replacing the trains. Labour has not said how much they think this would cost.

I think re-nationalising the railways will put re-nationalising the utilities into the national discourse.

The first steps towards re-nationalisation of railways were taken in 2021 under Grant Shapps as transport secretary and Boris Johnson as Prime Minister in what was considered to be a right-wing Conservative government ... and yet they did something that directly contradicted the previous Thatcher / Major Tory administration. Public opinion changes over time and politicians react to that.

They refuse to publish it and also refuse to tell all the opposition MPs who keep asking them what the "plan" is.

The Guardian keeps publishing stories about them.

Don't the Chinese own Thames Water now?

What is the plan? Or have they not published it?