To be shocked by what DD told me about her workplace?

I often wonder where this problem, for the shops, and also with the lack of police response (and I do NOT blame the police for this) is going to take us.

I can see two possibilities. One is retailers will just close, especially in rough areas. Like Walmarts in some inner cities in the US, these areas will be left as wastelands with no services.

The other possibility seems to be what I am seeing increasingly in the city near where my mum lives. The area has more expensive shops, and they are now locking their doors and have a security guard who will let in customers.

I also think if this approach of not prosecuting at all carries on, we will see some kind of push by retailers to be able to defend their own stock. I know that sounds mad, but I cannot see allowing people to just come in and take things without consequence as sustainable. It's part of the social contract that citizens can't use force except in real self-defence - but that depends on the state taking on the use of force to maintain law and order. If they simply can't or won't do it, I think we may start to see individuals taking back that role for themselves like it's the wild west.

This in the theory, but in my experience it doesn't seem to pan out. Some use them, but plenty don't. And they seem to draw more addicts into the area. So you get worse problems in the end.

What are the police meant to do? I'd say the shoplifting is something they should be dealing with. But the actual fact of finding needles in a toilet, no crime has actually been committed? Even if they found someone with some drugs on them, it would be unlikely they would even make an arrest. It's obviously grim though. I'd be most concerned about when they find someone in there that had OD'd and passed away. I guess that's a hazard of any 'public' toilet in a busy and urban area.

Its the same issue that these types of places all encounter in certain locations.

I'm surprised you're surprised.

It's exactly why most fast food places in certain area have toilet codes etc. And even then staff will still be dealing with it.

Do they throw away the kettle when that happens? :/

The blue lights don't stop them. A social worker told me they just mark the vein with a biro before they go in.

We had this issue when I worked at Morrisons, they installed blue lights in the end and it stopped the issue after a short while. It's not a nice environment to work in but you do get used to it.

I'm not surprised that there are sometimes needles left in a toilet in a Greggs if it's a rougher area. Happens in McDonald's, certain pubs, railway stations, bus stations, shopping centres etc as well. I can understand why you don't like the thought of your daughter having to deal with it. But it is something that happens in a lot of places.

The fact that your daughter is 17 is irrelevant to the nature of the work she does, though. You keep saying 'Why should a teenager have to deal with this?' but she's doing the same job as anyone else who works at Greggs in that role and if they have to do it then so will she. It's horrible, and in an ideal world nobody would have to do it, but obviously they can't just leave the needles sitting there or close the toilets, so essentially, someone has to remove them and there's no reason it shouldn't be your daughter as opposed to any of the other staff.

She should have been formally shown how to handle the needles, but apart from that, her employer hasn't done anything wrong.

For example DD said she was told about the last toilet drug user "if she comes back tell her she's banned". DD said she didn't feel comfortable doing it so didn't.

Telling people you can't serve them or that they aren't allowed in the establishment - for any reason - is part of working in retail/hospitality unfortunately, so she probably needs to get comfortable with it. I occasionally had to tell people they were barred from a department store where I had a Saturday job at 15 (not for drug use, but for previous shoplifting or abusive behaviour) and when I turned 18 and did bar work it was obviously quite a regular occurrence.

The best veins have collapsed. They're using the ones which are left.

She or her manager need to attempt contacting head office- key codes for customers and safety training are the least they can do.

I work in Costa and we get the same. Weekly we get the toilet covered in shit too so we put a code on the door and only allow paying customers to use it

We've had a lot of angry non-paying customers demanding to use the loo but we refuse.

One larger gentleman comes in a few times a week on his mobility scooter and shit sprays the toilet, it's everywhere and we have to close it for a couple of hours to deep clean it. We can't stop him apparently because it's ableism and discrimination but it stresses up out so much and it's not fair that we have to clean up after him

@Mynewnameis Very good point that this girl is under 18 as well.

OP, if you wanted to put together a case to complain/ prosecute Greggs over this, you would have good grounds to do so. (Regarding the needles, probably not so much the shoplifters).

It's up to you if you/ your daughter want to do this. I would say it would be a good shout to protect future employees, but it's your call.

The other options are that your daughter puts up with it (not ideal), or finds another job.

I said upthread about how a Greggs I go to has recently taken away it's sit in option and is just takeaway only now.
I also realised that they have also put the drinks fridge/baguette/crisps etc behind the counter now.
Everything is behind the counter - nothing on the sales floor at all.
I assume that was due to shoplifters.

I saw Greggs staff member chase and shout at shop lifters recently. I thought she was mad to rusk it.

The toilet needs a lock. I would take this further as your daughter is under 18.

Can I please just point out that it’s not that the police “aren’t interested”.

Like lots of public services, we are ridiculously short staffed. In order to fund the extra officers the government promised (but did not adequately fund) most forces have had to cut staff from other areas meaning a lot of the behind-the-scenes functions are now done by the officers themselves. For example, we used to have file prep teams - officers would obviously write their own statements and take statements from victims and witnesses, collect CCTV etc but there were members of staff who could put together the rest of the file. CPS require a frankly ridiculous number of documents, many of which seem to duplicate information, to accept a file. They also won’t accept individual files of CCTV or body worn video over 10 minutes in length so this often needs to be clipped/redacted. Used to be the job of the video unit, now it’s my job as a response cop.

Taking the example of a few sandwiches from Greggs, costing say £20, it would take me somewhere in the region of 4-5 hours to put a file together, clip footage. That’s not including the time to interview the suspect, the cost of their free solicitor, the cost taking it to court etc. And it’s 4-5 hours I’m unavailable to attend potentially more serious incidents. Unfortunately it’s not worth it - it would cost thousands of pounds in police time/legal costs just for them to walk away from court with a slap on the wrist.

We have to prioritise the jobs we can attend and investigate because there simply isn’t enough of us and we are thinly spread, spending large amounts of time completing admin tasks that could and should be done by someone else. It really isn’t that we don’t care.

There’s a reason why our hospital has blue lights in its ground floor toilets!!!

and a reason why staff don’t use them!!!

Also just to add to my above post - I agree with @Screamingabdabz that asking to see their risk assessment would be a perfectly reasonable starting point.

If they are expecting employees to handle used needles then they should have been trained properly to do this, and if this is the case, it will be on the risk assessment that only trained employees handle/ dispose of needles.

My suspicion is that there either isn't a risk assessment or it will be very basic and there will be no proper staff training.

Then you can quote the health & safety at work act and threaten to prosecute/ sue them if they don't sort it out. At the very minimum they need to put a coded lock on the bathroom door and do a proper risk assessment.

I doubt the law has changed. Theft is theft

As a matter of policy / priorities, police and prosecutors may have decided to focus on crimes over £200. They have to make difficult decisions, due to limited budgets / staff

Well said op. It’s not a mark of being middle class or ‘privileged’ to object to dealing with scum of the earth and their selfish scummy behaviour. And yes, it’s inevitably a result of trauma - but why should that mean it’s down to low paid, zero power public facing workers to deal with the shit on a daily basis?

OP, of course, your daughter should not have to be picking up used needles at work. She is on minimum wage and not trained for this.

But it's really up to you (and her) what, if anything, you want to do about this. Many people would simply accept it due to it being a rough area, or leave and find work elsewhere. But that doesn't hold Greggs/ the police accountable.

If you want to put in a complaint (and I really think you should, because if people don't speak up then nothing will change) then check out the Health & Safety at Work Act to support you. If she has been explicitly asked to handle used needles then the manager is 100% in breach of this.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/legislation/hswa.htm

Many years ago I worked in environmental health and I was always shocked at needle debris etc. left in children's playgrounds and the calls to clean it up and this was in an very affluent area. As for what people did / do in public toilets, you really don't want to know and behaviour certainly seems more brazen now!

On a purely selfish note I would be encouraging her to look for a job elsewhere in the nicer part of town. One of the best things you can teach her is she doesn’t have to put up with working in crappy environments and that there are always other options. Encourage her to start applying elsewhere. It’s great she has a job, this will do until she can find a better one.

They used to do this in my local sainsburys toilets. Not sure if it still happens as sainsburys is too expensive for me to shop at now!

@Dacadactyl omg I never knew that. I wondered why our local Asda had weird purple lighting thought it was a money saving thing.

I've had someone come at me before with a used needle. I wasn't even the one who challenged the preceding behaviour. I would encourage your daughter to find work elsewhere.