Male Nursery Staff

Just in case it makes a difference, I'm female, I have a daughter. I'm in an industry where I see the god awful in people, an industry, male dominated where by some public opinion I should feel threatened, to some degree I understand why, and yet I don't, I disagree with that view and I still disagree with the op despite not only being aware of statistics but seeing it.
Why because I see the bigger picture, it is not the majority of society at all and therefore fundamentally wrong to hold on to the statistics vilifying an entire group of people out of fear a misusing stats to justify it.

Do you think no men use MN? Do you think no men join MN threads with titles that indicate issues around men to argue with women who raise concerns, to consistently push a male centred viewpoint, defend themselves and other men and to try to persuade everyone that women are a problem? Do you believe every poster who does these things is a woman? Because I think that some of the people who do this are men. Why should we not acknowledge their presence on the thread?

Oh yay, we're back at the point of the thread where everyone who disagrees is a man or not a mum 🙄
It's ridiculous lol
Circular

I don’t understand why some people think it’s ok for a small child to automatically have intimate care from the opposite sex when we allow adults to choose. Why are children not afforded the same choice? The child (via their guardian) has a right to privacy and dignity. In this case, if the family would prefer a female then why is this not automatically allowed?

No idea. This is an anonymous forum, you can be whoever you tell us you are, so declarations either way are pointless. I could be a man myself for all anyone knows. I believe there are some men on this thread and my comments referenced them.

No, it's not weird. Men can care for children just as well as women.

At my DDs school one of the girls had a male 1:1 who did help her with everything including toileting, because that was his job.
So it can happen that male staff care for female pupils even as they get older. He was a brilliant TA but I expect most people on here will tell me he must be a pervert/sex offender/paedophile.

@5128gap

Do you think I'm a man?

Nurseries also have safeguarding procedures. Nappy changing areas should be in an open area, not out of sight.

I wouldn’t send my children to a nursery where nappy changing areas were in a private area and nursery workers changed them alone, male or female. I’d consider it poor safeguarding.

The unfortunate thing here is that most people probably agree it's good to have more male nursery staff, but the people pushing in with demands that centre those men's rights above everyone else, are doing so much more harm than good, yet lack the wits to see it.

Where there's a situation of mistrust, the last thing needed is a lot of shouting and tantrumming about their 'right' to do the thing people are concerned about them doing. Frankly, any man making a song and dance insisting on his right to perform intimate care for a baby is going to arouse suspicion, never mind reduce it.

Men in childcare need to build trust, and this needs to be done from a position of acknowledgement and understanding of why its lacking in the first place. No one in their right mind is going to trust a man who tries to pretend men are statistically no greater risk than women for example, because the immediate thought is, well thats not true, so what's his agenda then?

@JustAnotherManicMomday

From my point of view, no nurseries shouldn’t be shut down - and yes male staff should work there - with safeguarding policies in place - to protect children and protect them.

It’s more that I understand the OP’s concerns, and I think parents should have the choice over intimate care.

Yes it is a sad world that we need to feel that way, but in order to combat that stigma - we need to tackle the root cause.

Which are due to the statistics I quoted above.

I currently work with a male nursery worker and would be happy for him to do any nappy.

I’ve also worked with a male teacher who referred to the girls in his class as ‘babes’. I would not be happy there - or another male teacher who described, in a staff room, a lesson he’d taught to KS2 children about masturbation - using disgusting language.

Doctors and teachers have safeguarding procedures in place for children. They don’t examine them or remove underwear alone without a chaperone

They should indeed. Yet here they are, blundering on to MN trying to 'kick the arses' of worried mothers instead, belittling the concerns of women, hiding the bad men behind a transparently thin veil of bad women, telling women as per usual the onus is on them to start trusting men because men's hurt feelings are more important than their own.

Not a word from any of them about anything constructive that could be done to allay fears, tighten safeguarding. Not a single coherent defence to demonstrate women should not be concerned, just a lot of whataboutery to gaslight us into believing the threat from women is equal. Not one good reason why it's in the interests of either babies or the paying customers of nurseries to have male intimate carers imposed on children. Not a shred of evidence to suggest that the men in childcare they're using to make a point are actually fighting for the right to change nappies in the first place.

Ill informed blustering about discrimination that lacks the understanding that it doesnt mean a failure to treat everyone the same. Can you imagine trying to convince an ET panel that not being allowed to change a dirty nappy is a detriment?

Truly, if this thread represents the best men can offer in their own interests, then unfortunately I don't rate their chances of changing anything at all anytime soon.

You do realise it was a female nursery nurse and her boyfriend that were prosecuted a few years ago for abusing babies in the nursery. So with that case being all over the news years ago on that basis nurseries should all be shut down and we should go back to being 1950's house wives reliant on the men we think are abusing our children to support us.

All nursery staff undergo the same background checks, sometimes these things do not pick things up because they have not been prosecuted before. But before your child needs a life saving operation where the doctors put her to sleep, would you ask their gender, for their full db's check, if they will at any point be in the room alone with your child? If not then it's the same risk.

@Chocaloc

“Up to three quarters of a million men in Britain may have a sexual interest in children, according to researchers.
Analysis carried out by the National Crime Agency (NCA) suggests that as many as one in every 35 adult males is a potential paedophile.
While it is estimated that two thirds of those attracted to children would never act on their urges directly, increasing numbers of men are turning to the internet to seek out sick images of child abuse.”

“Most sexual offenders against children are male, although female offenders may account for 0.4% to 4% of convicted sexual offenders.6,7 On the basis of a range of published reports, McConaghy8estimates a 10 to 1 ratio of male-to-female child molesters.”

This is the root of the issue. This is what needs to change to stop discrimination.

Is it that weird for a man to want to work with children? I'm thinking of my friend's 19 year old son. He has been helping out with his 3 younger siblings since he was 5. He's now chosen to work in a nursery. It doesn't seem sinister at all. I don't imagine he's the only one with that background.

Just to add, fir those who think that due to the statistics, should we ban all males from any caring roles, contact from women at all just in case?

This seems a.bonkers reaction, over the top, which means unless there is some real concern we can't stop men in these roles, and nor should we. The decent ones out there should be encouraged to.make a difference, challenge stereotypes and kick the arse out of the ones that behave badly.

I'm appalled, women have fought for years for equality in male dominated areas, but when this is reversed not only does it make the gender who has suffered inequality for years uncomfortable, it's justified by branding all men potential pedophiles due to statistics.

It's shameful, stuff was said about women years ago relating to us not having the constitution to run marathons, too emotional for the front line i could go on. I thought that was bad, this inequality is being justified by thinking men are not only potential criminals but ones if the worst kind due to statistics. While they do account for most pedophiles and female account for most victims it can not be applied to a whole gender, this kind of thing is prejudice, discrimination and make sweeping statements against certain members of society. Would we make these presumptions based on race, disability or god forbid women?

The statistics are valid but should not be misconstrued. Information can be dangerous in the wrong hands. I fear this is happening on this post.

So 90% of nursery crimes are male- link please.

The majority of crimes against women are by men known to them. Instead of diverting resources in ridiculous witch hunts maybe focus on that a little.

Being male does not make you a risk to women by default.

@Chocaloc

It’s not ‘pointless’ otherwise news sources wouldn’t bother to make the public aware. I’d say all these news sources have a point, and a bury head in sand attitude isn’t going to solve the problem.

Statistics - globally - state that the overwhelming majority (around 90%) of these types of crimes are committed by males. It’s not discriminatory to state that, it’s the way the world is. So until that statistic is not heavily gender weighted, unfortunately I think the attitude to gender will still exist.

The crux is changing that 90% statistic. THAT is the key to stopping discrimination.

Being male does make one more of a risk, by an extraordinarily high percentage. Not all men are sexual predators but almost all sexual predators are men.

Wouldn't bother me because females pose far lower risk. 99% of sexual offences are committed by men.

It’s pointless because others have put several for women. You can find a link for anything.

Good luck with your bottom paragraph given the lack of childcare which female doctors would find even worse if this ridiculous witch hunt didn’t have laws in place to prevent it in the workplace. I’d be very afraid of going through an NHS insisting on zero male consultants, doctors or nurses. All the lead paediatric consultants on our paediatric wards are male but hey you crack on. It will leave more appointments for the rest of us. Do you realise how many men work in the NHS, schools, CAMHS, children’s services etc? Your poor children will end up with no provision anywhere.

I think, in your position, I would be looking for a childminder I felt as comfortable with, then I would know it is only that person dealing with my child’s care.

@Chocaloc

I don’t think it’s ‘trawling through links’ - it’s having an awareness. Would you advocate that news on such things should be muted to avoid discrimination - or should the public be aware that this can happen? If I was a parent affected by that case, I absolutely think I should have the right over choice for future intimate care for my child.

In regards to choice over male/female doctors - I agree with this : “Avoidance of male providers is not discrimination; it is a matter of self-defense rooted in a very real problem of sexual and physical violence that is often perpetrated by men who have historically escaped culpability for their destructive actions. It is a matter of patient safety, which should always be our first priority.”