Page 12 | Male Nursery Staff

herei · 2024-04-24T14:59:11+00:00

My child is in Nursery after my return to work. They nursery chain have been hiring make staff recently. My child's nursery has 3 male staff. My daughter's nappy was changed by a male member of staff. For my own personal reasons I feel upset about this but not sure if I can even say or do anything. I just don't like it.

StormingNorman · 25/04/2024 07:42

herei · 25/04/2024 06:39

Really are men scared to follow their dreams of being a nursery assistant because of stigma. Oh come on the majority of men seem to do the bare minimum when it comes to their children yet your putting these men on pedestals who want to work in childcare I'm not buying it. I'm not talking about teachers or doctors, I'm taking about men to specifically want to work with vulnerable nonverbal baby's.

Here's a question for you is it discriminatory to ask for a female doctor or gyno because I bet a lot of you saying equally etc would ask for a female for intimate checks.

Here's another question let's get more males in for smear tests, let's train health care assistants who are male to do this role. Would you be ok with this. Or because it's low skill it carry's more risk of concerning males doing the job.

So why should I not be my child's voice and advocate for female care for her nappy changing only. When so many adult won't want the same thing for themselves. As I said before why should my child feel comfortable with a stranger make changing where nappy, is she learning that it's ok for random men to touch her there. Why do we teach children all these self protection measures then say oh just have to accept this because you may offend the men?? Going backwards I feel.

I do think it’s discriminatory to ask for female doctors and I would be comfortable with a male nurse doing a smear test.

Your shame/embarrassment is making someone’s career choice somehow perverted or disgusting.

Gently, you need to speak to a therapist about why you are so upset by a man changing your daughter’s nappy. You aren’t protecting her, you are teaching her to be afraid of men.

Majentaplasticglasses · 25/04/2024 07:39

Crackalac · 25/04/2024 03:19

because 95% of paedophiles are men. you VERY significantly reduce the risk, by excluding men from working with children

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You've missed my point. 95% of paedophiles who are caught are men. There's a big difference. How do you know for certain that lots of female paedophiles don't just slip under the radar and avoid getting caught because people like you, blindly decide that women are safe and men aren't?

You can't.

TitanTins · 25/04/2024 07:28

@CoatRack

Is it discriminatory to separate males/females in sports/Olympics? Or toilets or changing rooms - taking into account that it WOULD be discriminatory if you did that for race/ethnicity?

It is an interesting point that you are making!

CoatRack · 25/04/2024 07:07

Anovelname · 24/04/2024 20:38

@CoatRack your analogy only holds if you believe that black men commit child sexual abuse at higher rates than white men. I do not believe this is true. THAT is the perfectly sensible reason for discriminating against men in favour of women looking after non verbal children.

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And I'm sure you're very virtuous and good for believing that.

However, since it's sensible to discriminate against those whose characteristics are overrepresented in the thing you're trying to avoid, you should look at the crime stats (sexual and otherwise) by ethnicity and then consider your position.

But I suspect you won't, because then you would no longer be virtuous.

mummyh2016 · 25/04/2024 07:01

herei · 25/04/2024 06:39

Really are men scared to follow their dreams of being a nursery assistant because of stigma. Oh come on the majority of men seem to do the bare minimum when it comes to their children yet your putting these men on pedestals who want to work in childcare I'm not buying it. I'm not talking about teachers or doctors, I'm taking about men to specifically want to work with vulnerable nonverbal baby's.

Here's a question for you is it discriminatory to ask for a female doctor or gyno because I bet a lot of you saying equally etc would ask for a female for intimate checks.

Here's another question let's get more males in for smear tests, let's train health care assistants who are male to do this role. Would you be ok with this. Or because it's low skill it carry's more risk of concerning males doing the job.

So why should I not be my child's voice and advocate for female care for her nappy changing only. When so many adult won't want the same thing for themselves. As I said before why should my child feel comfortable with a stranger make changing where nappy, is she learning that it's ok for random men to touch her there. Why do we teach children all these self protection measures then say oh just have to accept this because you may offend the men?? Going backwards I feel.

But it's okay to teach your child a random woman can touch her there? As that's what you're saying you're effectively doing.
Your argument is flawed, I'm expecting to see this thread on the daily fail later on today.

TitanTins · 25/04/2024 07:01

@burnttoad

But I’ve experienced a male gynaecologist giving me an unnecessary examination - without gloves, when I was in my twenties. Should I just see that as ‘bad luck’, and not have a right to request a female gynaecologist in the future?

Chocaloc · 25/04/2024 07:00

herei · 25/04/2024 06:39

Really are men scared to follow their dreams of being a nursery assistant because of stigma. Oh come on the majority of men seem to do the bare minimum when it comes to their children yet your putting these men on pedestals who want to work in childcare I'm not buying it. I'm not talking about teachers or doctors, I'm taking about men to specifically want to work with vulnerable nonverbal baby's.

Here's a question for you is it discriminatory to ask for a female doctor or gyno because I bet a lot of you saying equally etc would ask for a female for intimate checks.

Here's another question let's get more males in for smear tests, let's train health care assistants who are male to do this role. Would you be ok with this. Or because it's low skill it carry's more risk of concerning males doing the job.

So why should I not be my child's voice and advocate for female care for her nappy changing only. When so many adult won't want the same thing for themselves. As I said before why should my child feel comfortable with a stranger make changing where nappy, is she learning that it's ok for random men to touch her there. Why do we teach children all these self protection measures then say oh just have to accept this because you may offend the men?? Going backwards I feel.

I don’t know how you change nappies but no touching down there went on when I changed nappies.🤔 It’s also not random men or a stranger it is her trained key worker. You are putting your prejudices and anxieties onto a child, they are yours not hers and it’s not ok.

burnttoad · 25/04/2024 06:57

herei · 25/04/2024 06:39

Really are men scared to follow their dreams of being a nursery assistant because of stigma. Oh come on the majority of men seem to do the bare minimum when it comes to their children yet your putting these men on pedestals who want to work in childcare I'm not buying it. I'm not talking about teachers or doctors, I'm taking about men to specifically want to work with vulnerable nonverbal baby's.

Here's a question for you is it discriminatory to ask for a female doctor or gyno because I bet a lot of you saying equally etc would ask for a female for intimate checks.

Here's another question let's get more males in for smear tests, let's train health care assistants who are male to do this role. Would you be ok with this. Or because it's low skill it carry's more risk of concerning males doing the job.

So why should I not be my child's voice and advocate for female care for her nappy changing only. When so many adult won't want the same thing for themselves. As I said before why should my child feel comfortable with a stranger make changing where nappy, is she learning that it's ok for random men to touch her there. Why do we teach children all these self protection measures then say oh just have to accept this because you may offend the men?? Going backwards I feel.

I for one have no problem and have had male medical staff involved in treating my intimate care.

TitanTins · 25/04/2024 06:50

I think until we stop hearing statistics like 1 in 6 children experiencing abuse, and that 90% of these crimes committed against children are male perpetrators - people will - unfortunately have reservations.

What do you do when you hear statistics like that?
Is it a fact that men are far more likely to abuse children? Or a discriminatory statement/something that we should ignore?

In reference to choice over male/female doctors:

“Avoidance of male providers is not discrimination; it is a matter of self-defense rooted in a very real problem of sexual and physical violence that is often perpetrated by men who have historically escaped culpability for their destructive actions. It is a matter of patient safety, which should always be our first priority.”

Original poster

herei · 25/04/2024 06:39

Really are men scared to follow their dreams of being a nursery assistant because of stigma. Oh come on the majority of men seem to do the bare minimum when it comes to their children yet your putting these men on pedestals who want to work in childcare I'm not buying it. I'm not talking about teachers or doctors, I'm taking about men to specifically want to work with vulnerable nonverbal baby's.

Here's a question for you is it discriminatory to ask for a female doctor or gyno because I bet a lot of you saying equally etc would ask for a female for intimate checks.

Here's another question let's get more males in for smear tests, let's train health care assistants who are male to do this role. Would you be ok with this. Or because it's low skill it carry's more risk of concerning males doing the job.

So why should I not be my child's voice and advocate for female care for her nappy changing only. When so many adult won't want the same thing for themselves. As I said before why should my child feel comfortable with a stranger make changing where nappy, is she learning that it's ok for random men to touch her there. Why do we teach children all these self protection measures then say oh just have to accept this because you may offend the men?? Going backwards I feel.

OP posts:

Mouse82 · 25/04/2024 05:05

Noyesnoyes · 25/04/2024 04:31

This is both lovely and sad.

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Yeah, i've been in the industry for many years now so have seen and heard it all.
In some centres I have worked in, placement students have more freedom then male educators.

shattereddreams1 · 25/04/2024 04:59

jannier · 24/04/2024 18:36

Being naturally wary isn't a problem and should be applied to all people having contact with children not just men. Assuming because 98% of sexual crimes are carried out by men therefore all men are risky is wrong if that were the case most of us would be victims as we have fathers and male relatives and family is the riskiest place to be.

I think people need to put things into perspective only a low percentage of children are abused, most risk is at home, sexual abuse is a lower percentage than physical, emotional, or neglect. Be aware ask questions like what is your safeguarding policy, your nappy changing policy etc. read Ofsted reports on management and leadership

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That’s the point though. Most women ARE victims of male behaviour in some form. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn’t experienced some form of problematic sexual behaviour from a man in their lifetime ranging from street harassment to rape.

I don’t think it’s ‘wrong’ for some women to assume all men are predatory until proven otherwise. It’s sad, but it’s not something women just need to get over. It’s up to men, as a collective to stop making us feel that way.

Noyesnoyes · 25/04/2024 04:31

Mouse82 · 25/04/2024 02:21

I work in early childhood and the men we have working at our service, amazing hands down. I wish we could get more, but so many are scared to follow their passion because of the stigma that comes with it.

This is both lovely and sad.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 25/04/2024 03:24

anchoviesanchovies · 24/04/2024 16:03

You are being unreasonable. I agree with ScarlettOBan, would it be a problem the other way round? Obviously they have been crb checked in order to be working there.

This only proves that the person hasn't been prosecuted /there's no soft Intel on a person...

It does not mean that the person is safe...

Sadly it's the best we have currently..

Crackalac · 25/04/2024 03:19

Fruitandclottedcream · 25/04/2024 02:13

At the risk of being accused of not being a woman or a mother:

How does anyone who is against males working in early years actually know for a fact that children are safer in a setting that only has female staff?

One of the arguments that keeps being wheeled out is "DBS checks just mean someone hasn't been caught/convicted".

Why does this rule only apply to males? How can anyone know that a woman in their child's setting just hasn't been caught? I mean it's clear from this thread that lots of pp automatically think female staff = safer nursery. Surely that's the perfect environment for a female abuser to slip under the radar, because nobody would expect her to do something like that, so they're less likely to be caught.

I'm not denying a minority of men commit crimes whilst in a child care roles. But, I do wonder how many more women would be convicted of these crimes, if women in childcare were treated with the same level of suspicion that men in child care are.

because 95% of paedophiles are men. you VERY significantly reduce the risk, by excluding men from working with children

Mouse82 · 25/04/2024 02:21

I work in early childhood and the men we have working at our service, amazing hands down. I wish we could get more, but so many are scared to follow their passion because of the stigma that comes with it.

Fruitandclottedcream · 25/04/2024 02:13

At the risk of being accused of not being a woman or a mother:

How does anyone who is against males working in early years actually know for a fact that children are safer in a setting that only has female staff?

One of the arguments that keeps being wheeled out is "DBS checks just mean someone hasn't been caught/convicted".

Why does this rule only apply to males? How can anyone know that a woman in their child's setting just hasn't been caught? I mean it's clear from this thread that lots of pp automatically think female staff = safer nursery. Surely that's the perfect environment for a female abuser to slip under the radar, because nobody would expect her to do something like that, so they're less likely to be caught.

I'm not denying a minority of men commit crimes whilst in a child care roles. But, I do wonder how many more women would be convicted of these crimes, if women in childcare were treated with the same level of suspicion that men in child care are.

PrincessTeaSet · 24/04/2024 23:40

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 24/04/2024 23:17

I think its worth noting that feeling uncomfortable is a personal thing and is very different from vocalising it or taking action. I can guarantee you that many many men have felt uncomfortable seeing women take on unconventional roles and thankfully keep those thoughts to themselves these days. Similarly I have no doubt that many people have felt uncomfortable with others caring for their kids due to race, religion, social class, disability etc but they (rightly) keep those thoughts to themselves because they know that it is not socially acceptable and it is discrimination. I guess what I'm saying is you are entitled to feel how you feel, but you need to suck it up and understand the problem rests with you.

I felt a little unsure when a male worker started at my daughter's nursery but didn't really feel there was any reason behind it so took no action. However, I don't think it's right to tell someone to ignore their instincts if they have reservations about a particular male worker as the OP does. Choosing a childcare setting is hugely important. These people are going to spend more time with many of these babies and children than their own parents. There may be many reasons to reject a potential childcare worker or setting that would not be valid reasons for rejecting someone in a less vital role. Whether to actually say something or whether to just move to another nursery is up to OP but I wouldn't suggest ignoring her concerns. On the other hand I don't trust anyone 100% except myself - I'd never assume a female worker to be safe.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 24/04/2024 23:17

I think its worth noting that feeling uncomfortable is a personal thing and is very different from vocalising it or taking action. I can guarantee you that many many men have felt uncomfortable seeing women take on unconventional roles and thankfully keep those thoughts to themselves these days. Similarly I have no doubt that many people have felt uncomfortable with others caring for their kids due to race, religion, social class, disability etc but they (rightly) keep those thoughts to themselves because they know that it is not socially acceptable and it is discrimination. I guess what I'm saying is you are entitled to feel how you feel, but you need to suck it up and understand the problem rests with you.

Halfpint737 · 24/04/2024 23:14

My son started nursery when he was z2. There were 2 male workers there when he started. They were brothers I think. It didn’t even occur to me to be remotely worried Aboyne them in fact I thought it was great they had male workers. One of the men was the room leader for the room my son was in and he was awesome.

PrincessTeaSet · 24/04/2024 23:08

Samlewis96 · 24/04/2024 22:55

Nope Just saying it's not directly affecting their patients

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You don't think having a paedophile working with young babies is a problem??

StormingNorman · 24/04/2024 22:56

Anovelname · 24/04/2024 22:31

You’re asking me if it’s a fact or an assumption that paedophiles are attracted to jobs where they get to be close to children? I’ll let you work that one out for yourself.

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I’m asking if you have the stats to back it up or if you made an assumption?

Are male teachers or male paediatricians or male therapists or male carers more likely to be paedophiles? Are male gynaecologists more likely to be sex pests?

You cannot go around assuming somebody is a pervert because they choose a certain career.

Samlewis96 · 24/04/2024 22:55

Anovelname · 24/04/2024 22:06

Is that a joke?

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Nope Just saying it's not directly affecting their patients

Anovelname · 24/04/2024 22:31

StormingNorman · 24/04/2024 22:28

I’m saying that men who are attracted to such jobs are at an even greater risk of being paedophiles than the general population of men.

Is this a fact or an assumption?

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You’re asking me if it’s a fact or an assumption that paedophiles are attracted to jobs where they get to be close to children? I’ll let you work that one out for yourself.

StormingNorman · 24/04/2024 22:28

Anovelname · 24/04/2024 22:06

I’m not saying all men are a huge risk. I’m saying that men who are attracted to such jobs are at an even greater risk of being paedophiles than the general population of men. I’m not even saying that all male nursery workers are a huge risk, but that the risk is high enough that I wouldn’t personally accept it as someone who has a low risk tolerance when it comes to my daughter.

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I’m saying that men who are attracted to such jobs are at an even greater risk of being paedophiles than the general population of men.

Is this a fact or an assumption?