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Realistic for SIL to rely on inheriting mother's London house

155 replies

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 11:22

SIL is 25 this year and told me she plans on "winging it' through life like her father. What her father did was that he got 100k out of the divorce settlement (despite not working through most of the marriage but he did buy a house jointly with MIL) and then moved to an Asian country where he has a new wife.

I think she is saying this because she knows that MIL would pass the whole house to her which I am fine with. She lives at home and earns a modest amount every month writing online i.e £1k per month. No plans to move out or increase earnings, and limited potential as she has no gcses

I am interested if this is realistic. I read that care can cost up to 65k per annum so assuming MIL goes into a care home for 3 years, that would only be around £210k? House is a 3 bed victorian terrace in zone 3 london so worth around £600k today so there should be plenty left for SIL? MIL's mum died of dementia and I suppose these things are hereditary.

I am a fan of Gary's economics and his view is that for poorer people who own homes (where they don't have other assets) all of the assets will be absorbed in retirement or end of life costs. MIL doesn't have a pension other than state pension and she is self employed (but her profession is under severe threat from AI and she is in her 60s). I know Gary's parents lived in London (owned a house that is pretty much identical to MIL's house) and so probably so did his grandparents? Yet according to him, there was absolutely no inheritance even if they did own their homes.

I also expect that many older people may sell their houses to pay for ancillary medical costs due to long nhs waiting lists.

DH and i own our home in London and we are making provision for our old age so inheritance not a concern for us.

OP posts:
Greywitch2 · 24/04/2024 16:51

It's just such a dumb thing to rely on, frankly.

My parents are both still alive, well in their 80s. My GPs lived until well into their 90s and I expect my parents to probably do the same. Neither has currently any serious health issues.

I'm around 60. Haven't inherited yet. My eldest sister sadly died at 57, without inheriting. Relying on 'I'm gonna get your house when you are gone' is just stupid. Your SIL might not outlive her mother!

Your SIL is likely to be pretty old if and when she ever gets anything. If you look at King Charles - he was 73 when he finally inherited from his mother. Frankly, your MIL might sell her house and go travelling. Or meet a younger man. She might need it for care home fees. Anything could happen.

nonevernotever · 24/04/2024 16:49

We're currently planning on care home costs for my DM coming in at around £2.5k per week, so a lot more than in your OP

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 16:49

Lampslights · 24/04/2024 16:40

Op there is a care cap of 86k. In addition only about 20 percent of the population go into care.

you do seem over invested in this young woman and her finances.

i think a big part of it is trying to make sense of the current situation..

Like if you listen to gary's economics (and he has a history of predicting this stuff), he says that for most young people of ordinary backgrounds, they would have no wealth and their wealth would be lost to the rich (and people like my MIL would lose their asset to care home fees and end of life costs etc). So ordinary people (which I count my SIL as given she has a modest income and no qualifications) should rally around him cos they would be on the front line.

But if she is going to inherit a house or at least quite a large part of that, i don't blame her if she is not going to go up in arms over the rapidly increasing societal inequality., Many people are selfish. my SIL would also not be the only person in this relatively fortunate situation. If she inherits the house, then she would probably be relatively unscathed come what may unless we cancel nhs or something drastic like that.

It just means that we may become even more divided and not just the rich against the poor. But the lucky poor vs the unlucky poor.

OP posts:
Crackalac · 24/04/2024 16:44

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 11:31

is that always possible for people with dementia?

My grandma (who didn't live in the UK) didn't have dementia and my parents hired a domestic helper from Indonesia to care for her as she was bed bound. Domestic helper didn't do any chores for the family, only cared for my grandma. But my grandma still went into a care home for the last 1.5 years of her life as the domestic helper caught dengue fever and there was no one to care for her so she went into the care home.

I imagine if the person doesn't know who they are and are always running away, it would be almost impossible for 1 person to keep track of them

Edited

my mum cared for my dad at home right to the end (with some support from me). but if he hadn't had that support at home, he would have had to be in a care home for 7 years or so and a nursing home for 2, so I think you are underestimating the cost of care. also, the person needs to be willing and able to do the care. it is full on and someone who thinks they need to 'enjoy life everyday' probably is not going to be able to do it.

I think the only way she can guarantee that the money isn't spent on care is probably to put the house in daughter name before MIL gets sick. not sure of the legality of that though?

WannabeMathematician · 24/04/2024 16:44

Haven't read the whole thread but I do like Gary's ecconomics. I think it's reasonable to ponder these things.

It's hardly like you are breaking down the door asking for anyone fanical planning documents.

Lampslights · 24/04/2024 16:40

Op there is a care cap of 86k. In addition only about 20 percent of the population go into care.

you do seem over invested in this young woman and her finances.

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 16:36

Calliopespa · 24/04/2024 16:28

Isn’t she meaning marrying someone and getting a settlement if it doesn’t work out to live off them in matrimony ? That’s what most of my “ winging it” friends have meant - and sounds like what her Dad did.

thats a thought but how is she supposed to meet this rich person with assets if she has no qualifications and is self employed.

In the past people on blue collar salaries could buy london houses which then appreciated in value rapidly over the years. Most of my friends who own homes these days (not just in London) are generally well educated and in good stable jobs. For millennial (aged 25-34), its the top 25% who manage to buy. Perhaps the 40 year olds, it would be the top 30-50% but still resolutely the top half.

OP posts:
Calliopespa · 24/04/2024 16:28

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 11:44

not in the slightest interested in the inheritance. But I think cos i am a fan of gary's economics, his constant message is that the middle class would disappear because of high house costs and low earnings (relative to those with wealth)

However most people have parents who own houses so if house prices are high, then there would be inheritors who can then use the money to buy houses. So i am trying to understand from mumsnetters at a later stage in life how this 'asset' is eroded esp from a london perspective. I can completely see how a 120k bungalow in Middlesbrough get eroded, but interested in how a london terrace can also get eaten up by costs. If that is possible... cos obviously its a very large sum of money!

Edited

Isn’t she meaning marrying someone and getting a settlement if it doesn’t work out to live off them in matrimony ? That’s what most of my “ winging it” friends have meant - and sounds like what her Dad did.

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 16:26

Dartwarbler · 24/04/2024 15:32

But she’s 60and theoretically still working.
ever read the poem “I shall wear purple”?
no one including SIL knows what MIL might do age 67 with state pension.
And my point is speculation is a waste of time.
just because that’s how she lives her life now, means nothing .

seems like you know an awful lot about MIL financial affairs! A bit odd to know that much detail.

its cos i know about my DH's childhood. When i first met him at university, he often had no money while waiting for student loan so i was buying him lunches (I offered).

She has no money and that house which she has paid off. She told me a bit about her property journey when I was moaning about london house prices as a 25 year old saving for my deposit.She bought a 1 bed flat which she sold at a loss to buy the terraced house she still lives in. And DH told me one reason why he no longer speaks to his father is because he demanded half of the house when they divorced (despite not working for most of their marriage) and DH felt that this put their entire family's finances in peril and their mum kept crying as she thought she was going to lose the house. So she had to remortgage due to that though he didn't get half. This happened when my DH was around 18.

She has been telling me about the impending london house price crash that will mean i can afford a mansion since 2017 :) Apparently thats how she could afford to buy her house in 1996 lol.

OP posts:
Bignanna · 24/04/2024 16:23

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 11:44

not in the slightest interested in the inheritance. But I think cos i am a fan of gary's economics, his constant message is that the middle class would disappear because of high house costs and low earnings (relative to those with wealth)

However most people have parents who own houses so if house prices are high, then there would be inheritors who can then use the money to buy houses. So i am trying to understand from mumsnetters at a later stage in life how this 'asset' is eroded esp from a london perspective. I can completely see how a 120k bungalow in Middlesbrough get eroded, but interested in how a london terrace can also get eaten up by costs. If that is possible... cos obviously its a very large sum of money!

Edited

‘Most people have parents who own houses’. Some have, but not most, imo

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 16:14

FrenchandSaunders · 24/04/2024 15:25

I've got another question OP .... how do you know so much about your MIL's financial situation? Obviously it's easy to work out how much her house is worth but how do you know about her savings/income/pension?

I'm mid 50s and, although I'm quite generous with them, my adult DDs don't know exactly what I have, let alone their partners. I find it quite astonishing that you know so much about her personal affairs.

She says she has no pension other than state pension.

DH knows her income as they had to fill out the details of her income to get maintenance grant/loan for university and it has stayed the same since then or even fallen in real terms.

As for savings, she raised 4 kids on her income and can't afford to contribute to pension so definitely there is no significant savings.

Lets put it this way, when DH was 11 years old, he couldn't afford bus fare to go to secondary school so had to cycle there. He couldn't go to school trips that cost more than £5 (and he only went once). When you are that poor, you know. You know how little money your parents have.

But you also know the house is paid off(was concerned she might be affected by rising interest rates but happily she is not) and so that is the only thing that she actually has. MIL occasionally talks about renting out rooms once the kids are gone to supplement the income. But in that vague' will never happen' way.

I actually have more knowledge about her finances than my own parents. My parents own multiple commercial properties plus the detached house they live in and they have diversified investments so i have absolutely no idea nor am i very interested to find out. I know they will be 100% fine no matter what happens. My sister and I both own our homes (my sister is in the middle of buying hers) and we will both save for retirement so in a sense its not very important what they have.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 24/04/2024 15:50

London houses don't really sell on condition.

I mean it makes a difference but it is location and size that determines the price.

A relative of mine sold a house in London in 1988 which did not have central heating, any phones, and had 1920s wiring. The new owners completely gutted it and basically rebuilt it.

Zoopla will give you an idea of what the house will sell for.

aodirjjd · 24/04/2024 15:37

your MIL is only 61 and your SIL is only 25. It’s daft to think about it now when so much can change. MIL could live to 100. SIL is likely to find a partner she wants to move in with. Heck MIL may also find a partner and kick SIL out and leave property all to her new love interest.

coldcallerbaiter · 24/04/2024 15:36

What is your home country? It’s system is interesting

Dartwarbler · 24/04/2024 15:32

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 15:20

MIL has no car and free public transport. Doesn't replace anything unless it literally dies on her. Her house is in very bad condition (so perhaps may not sell for £600k given the cost of tradesmen). She only goes abroad to visit her father (and he is very old) and that is on ryanair flights. Her holidays are walking holidays in youth hostels, usually booked midweek and she doesn't even buy food outside.

I think she could live on state pension but even she has doubts. Council tax alone is £200 and bills another £200. She doesn't eat meat.

Edited

But she’s 60and theoretically still working.
ever read the poem “I shall wear purple”?
no one including SIL knows what MIL might do age 67 with state pension.
And my point is speculation is a waste of time.
just because that’s how she lives her life now, means nothing .

seems like you know an awful lot about MIL financial affairs! A bit odd to know that much detail.

FrenchandSaunders · 24/04/2024 15:25

I've got another question OP .... how do you know so much about your MIL's financial situation? Obviously it's easy to work out how much her house is worth but how do you know about her savings/income/pension?

I'm mid 50s and, although I'm quite generous with them, my adult DDs don't know exactly what I have, let alone their partners. I find it quite astonishing that you know so much about her personal affairs.

godmum56 · 24/04/2024 15:22

I get that you are interested, but my response would be "will you dear? oh that's nice" followed by a change of subject. A reasonable, nice but not fabulous, care home round me (south) around 15 years ago was 1k a month plus extras. I have no idea what it would be now....of course if your mil wants to stay in the same area she is in now then the sky would be the limit.

Opalfleur2025 · 24/04/2024 15:20

Dartwarbler · 24/04/2024 15:10

Nursing home fees are indeed £60-80k per year , BUT there’s a lot of caveats to that.

the average care home stay is 801 days, with 50% of residents dying within 450 days ( so there’s a long tail of long stayers in a small minority)

also, some people end up with funding for nursing needs, leaving “ only” care elements. My dad is at end of life. He has maximum nursing needs, on a section 117, so has funding for that. He has also spent all but 4 months of last 13 months in various nhs hospitals where he did not pay ( including being sectioned). He’s paying ( or LPOA is) fees of £1200 now, but it’s unlikely to be for more than months or weeks were told.

in 2025 the “ care cap” is supposed to be introduced, it’s been delayed countless times so could be again. At time it was set to £ 86k which was the average total spend. So, that also helps to indicate what total spend typically is. Though inflation will have affected that as set a long time ago now🤦‍♀️

. Ok, womens are considerably less, but average pension is now £18k net, due to interest on savings/investments being higher. That goes a little way to paying as well

so if you work on average stay, average pension, average fees and no cap in existences still, you’re talking around £117k to find from assets - not the £210k you state. And possibly less if there are nursing needs that are funded nearer end of life.

on the other hand my mum, maternal gm, we’re dead by 60 and nothing was spent on care. My gf dropped dead in his garden, after a lovely bit of tidying up, at age of 89! Despite what you hear or experience just 4% of population over 65 are in care homes, and even in over 85year olds that number is still only 15% .

yes, most over 85 need some support and that will need some of their money spent but attendance allowance helps

Some dementia types show SOME hereditary tendencies, but it’s not a clear picture. It is also a possibility that there’s a correlation in families with lifestyle or other inherited condition ( I.e sleep patterns, smoking etc) - but we’re still so far out from any clear epidemiological causes and effects.

aslo, people overlook that money will need to be spent long before care costs come into play. MIL has low income, Victorian house etc which will need any amount of maintenance work. Cars/ white goods/ electricals need to be replaced for a few years at least, holidays and travel paid for, the odd wedding and birth etc. without a large pension that will have to come from savings. When that runs out downsizing.or equity release. That’s why so many people end up doing equity release . In this case the house will have to be sold much quicker if MIL needs care cost covering

but mostly this is speculation. MIL is younger than me. And I’ve no idea what my kids will actually inherit! Life throws curved balls- I could have a big win on premium bonds, live the high life, die of heart attack in my garden and the kids will” have a big IHT bill 🤣🤣🤣🤣. But that ain’t my problem!

At end of day, anyone relying on an inheritance is naive imho!

Edited

MIL has no car and free public transport. Doesn't replace anything unless it literally dies on her. Her house is in very bad condition (so perhaps may not sell for £600k given the cost of tradesmen). She only goes abroad to visit her father (and he is very old) and that is on ryanair flights. Her holidays are walking holidays in youth hostels, usually booked midweek and she doesn't even buy food outside.

I think she could live on state pension but even she has doubts. Council tax alone is £200 and bills another £200. She doesn't eat meat.

OP posts:
MenopauseSucks · 24/04/2024 15:14

When my Mum died in late 2022, care costs were £82k/year.
It was for dementia care only & we are Surrey based.
I remember talking to a resident's son before Covid (ie pre-2020) & his mother's costs whilst still in London were over £80k/year back then!

£62k/year for full nursing care in London sounds pretty optimistic.

Dartwarbler · 24/04/2024 15:10

Nursing home fees are indeed £60-80k per year , BUT there’s a lot of caveats to that.

the average care home stay is 801 days, with 50% of residents dying within 450 days ( so there’s a long tail of long stayers in a small minority)

also, some people end up with funding for nursing needs, leaving “ only” care elements. My dad is at end of life. He has maximum nursing needs, on a section 117, so has funding for that. He has also spent all but 4 months of last 13 months in various nhs hospitals where he did not pay ( including being sectioned). He’s paying ( or LPOA is) fees of £1200 now, but it’s unlikely to be for more than months or weeks were told.

in 2025 the “ care cap” is supposed to be introduced, it’s been delayed countless times so could be again. At time it was set to £ 86k which was the average total spend. So, that also helps to indicate what total spend typically is. Though inflation will have affected that as set a long time ago now🤦‍♀️

. Ok, womens are considerably less, but average pension is now £18k net, due to interest on savings/investments being higher. That goes a little way to paying as well

so if you work on average stay, average pension, average fees and no cap in existences still, you’re talking around £117k to find from assets - not the £210k you state. And possibly less if there are nursing needs that are funded nearer end of life.

on the other hand my mum, maternal gm, we’re dead by 60 and nothing was spent on care. My gf dropped dead in his garden, after a lovely bit of tidying up, at age of 89! Despite what you hear or experience just 4% of population over 65 are in care homes, and even in over 85year olds that number is still only 15% .

yes, most over 85 need some support and that will need some of their money spent but attendance allowance helps

Some dementia types show SOME hereditary tendencies, but it’s not a clear picture. It is also a possibility that there’s a correlation in families with lifestyle or other inherited condition ( I.e sleep patterns, smoking etc) - but we’re still so far out from any clear epidemiological causes and effects.

aslo, people overlook that money will need to be spent long before care costs come into play. MIL has low income, Victorian house etc which will need any amount of maintenance work. Cars/ white goods/ electricals need to be replaced for a few years at least, holidays and travel paid for, the odd wedding and birth etc. without a large pension that will have to come from savings. When that runs out downsizing.or equity release. That’s why so many people end up doing equity release . In this case the house will have to be sold much quicker if MIL needs care cost covering

but mostly this is speculation. MIL is younger than me. And I’ve no idea what my kids will actually inherit! Life throws curved balls- I could have a big win on premium bonds, live the high life, die of heart attack in my garden and the kids will” have a big IHT bill 🤣🤣🤣🤣. But that ain’t my problem!

At end of day, anyone relying on an inheritance is naive imho!

mysteriousspiderbite · 24/04/2024 14:58

Is that always possible for people with dementia?

She isn't necessarily going to get dementia.

PerfectTravelTote · 24/04/2024 14:48

She's only 24. She knows nothing about how the world works. She just needs to grow up a bit..

pontipinemum · 24/04/2024 14:41

I think I am reasonably sensible, but at 25 I had just come back from traveling/ living abroad for 3 years. I had no house/ pension/ retirement plan. But I did start working towards a professional qualification.

She is still pretty young so you never know she might change her way, or marry someone rich 😂

GoldenTrout · 24/04/2024 14:34

Care home costs will certainly go up, and of course your MIL could end up in a home for 10 years for all anyone knows. Your SIL is bonkers to rely on this.

coldcallerbaiter · 24/04/2024 14:28

Why are you fine with her getting everything? Unless you are incredibly wealthy and the funds are a drop in the ocean then your family is equally deserving of any leftover as an inheritance.

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