Right wing thugs 'protecting the flag' on St George's Day

So you don't have stats wrt foreign born and British born sex offenders. That's OK @MarioIa. I looked and couldn't find any either.

What I did find were the statistics that showed intimate partners were the biggest group of male sex offenders, followed by acquaintances. This ties in with my own experience working with abused women and survivors of child abuse and domestic violence.

"The irony is that sexual assault isn't something that's actually condone by Islam, so criticising some of the behaviours we see from Islamic men isn't actually being intolerant to the religion. It's more akin to criticising paedophilia in the Catholic church."

Muslims would want the perpetrators of these kinds of crimes caught and punished just as much as anyone else would. It's disgusting to all communities.

I take your points, but this goes back to my earlier point about absolute thinking - i.e. all men are responsible for male violence, all Muslims are responsible for the misogynistic actions of a minority.

The only men that should face condemnation are those that commit the sexual crimes, and I don't believe they should be granted impunity due to some misplaced notion of political correctness or the views of ignorant people that would tar all with the same brush.

If their actions do bring scrutiny to certain cultural aspects of Islam then it's them, the perpetrators, that should be held responsible for this, not the victims that should be scared to speak up.

But it's an unevenly applied logic tbh because the slightest mention of 'not all men' invokes derision on here and nobody is saying that we shouldn't address male violence for fear of men all being tarred with the same brush. In fact, it's far more common to see the view that all men are responsible for calling out the bad uns and that 'if you're not helping, you're part of the problem' etc.

So why is it suddenly different when the demographic/protected characteristic is religion/cultural practices rather than sex? I honestly think it goes back to my previous quote about how we're conditioned not to see the oppressed as oppressors when in reality they can simultaneously be both.

I think it's one of those misplaced notions of political correctness not dissimilar to the self loathing we see in so many Brits. It's seen as racist to criticise certain cultures.

What's odd, though, is that other ideologies aren't subject to this. Like, nobody is afraid to criticise Nazism. But when it comes to the patriarchal aspects seen in certain cultures people are afraid to speak up for fear of being bigots.

The irony is that sexual assault isn't something that's actually condone by Islam, so criticising some of the behaviours we see from Islamic men isn't actually being intolerant to the religion. It's more akin to criticising paedophilia in the Catholic church.

I don't know all 'Western feminists' but the ones I do know have been at the forefront of campaigns centred on FMG, forced marriage - led and educated by groups such as Southall Black Sisters - established in 1979 - who argued and educated other refuge and sexual assault services on being to white/Eurocentric in their focus - a call which was listened to - I have always felt it's best to be led by the experts when tackling issues of abuse outside of my experience - and have been involved in campaigns in support.

Yes. I would agree that needs looking into IF that’s what the stats actually show. But, it’s also not ok to present it as a causal phenomenon. Especially as it is incitement to racial hatred.

You can’t tar all people with same brush either. There is a lovely AMA by a Roma Gypsy on here at the moment and it was horrible to see how she was being held accountable for the dreadful behaviour of the worst of her ethnic group, when she was clearly lovely.

Lots of sanctuary seekers are scared, desperate, peaceful and want to contribute positively to our society. Many bring fantastic skills. There are bad people in all groups. If I needed to flee the UK because my life was in danger and there was no legal way to do it (and this is the answer is to create legal pathways) I’d hope I’d be looked after as a fellow human.

The pp has posted the reference for the info

@Mariola I will never understand the alliance between Western feminists, the Left and Islam.

The below is exactly what we are seeing on this thread.

I think Western feminists excuse the misogyny inherent in Islam, and practiced by many Muslims, because thinking about it puts them in a situation of cognitive dissonance—they are forced to criticize the behavior of a group they consider oppressed (Muslims) if they want to promote the rights of another group they consider oppressed (women). It’s a clash between two classic progressive values, and to a large extent Western feminists have chosen Islam over women. Why they’ve made that choice baffles me.

Sadly, even if you consider all Muslims oppressed—and I don’t—being oppressed is no guarantee of virtue. Western women should stop coddling all religions that have misogynistic attributes, and those are not limited to Islam.

Here is a link to some of the stats I referenced from the book. As I said, I lent the actual book to somebody a while back but that's neither here nor there as I'm not going to be scanning and uploading pages from it.

https://ayaanhirsiali.com/articles/migrants-and-the-threat-to-womens-rights-in-europe

And I did provide a reference. It was the book Prey by Hirsi-Ali. All the stats I referenced are in there. You can find many of them in excerpts/articles online.

But when you have government statistics showing that certain demographics are responsible for 75% of gang rapes over a five year period despite being a tiny % of the overall population it's certainly worth at least investigating, would you not agree?

But the reverse is what happens. People actively try and find reasons not to consider the stats.

The fact that the cultures these individuals come from have shocking records in women's rights is not a coincidence IMO.

Look at the example I gave earlier about what happened to the reporter Lara Logan when working in Egypt. Can you honestly imagine a woman being gang raped for 30 mins in broad daylight in a busy public area in most western European countries? The only similar instances we've seen are the ones I've referenced above which were perpetrated by non-European men and asylum seekers.

I'm not making this stuff up.

You haven’t provided a reference. Correlation doesn’t equal causation. I think it’s very important to look at the causes of sexual crime and tackle them, but it’s very divisive to just look at immigration in isolation. 100% of murders are bread in the last week before they murdered. Bread is dangerous.

Which isn;t TRUE if you read my response - I know it would kill you to admit you are wrong but you are - do I get a horse now?

The reaction can be surprising on a mostly female site. I’d prefer to see priority of women not the backlash

That's because I'm talking about Europe as a whole, not just the UK. I specifically said that to another poster earlier in the thread who was asking for UK figures.

However, I did reference a source explaining that sexual crimes have risen in every European country for which we have the available data, particularly in the UK and Denmark. It said that the rise in sexual crimes is directly linked to the number of asylum seekers taken in.

The key factor isn't which country these men end up in. It's the culture they've come from which influences their behaviour. I've posted plenty of data showing that these men feature prominently in sex crimes in Europe (e.g. 75% of gang rapes over a five year period in some countries) and if they're committing these crimes in France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, Belgium, Austria, Denmark, etc, why are they suddenly going to behave if they come to the UK?

Yes, the statistics are shocking but the answer is not ignoring them or shooting the messenger. We're the demographic being preyed on here.

I thought I had missed it, with all the sudden need to talk about what was occuring in other countries.

Sorry, I wasn't so much referring for you. Two posters asked me for stats (one multiple times) and both seem to have gone quiet now.

I'm not saying in any way we should ban immigration. I'm just giving reasons why some people react badly towards it. It was only really a passing point but I'm a little surprised how many posters are actively resistant to acknowledging the facts.

Facts are facts. They're not racist because they're objective. It's no more racist/xenophobic to say that certain cultures commit more sexual violence than it is sexist to say that men commit more sexual violence.

Yes that particular claim hasn’t been backed up yet. I don’t believe it. It’s scapegoating in the extreme and has come out of unhelpful social media echo chambers, at a guess.

You haven’t posted any stats that back up your claim that in the UK, sanctuary seeking brown skinned men commit more sexual assaults than white skinned men born here. That’s what you’ve been asked to prove and you haven’t. You can’t go around saying stuff like that and think you won’t be challenged on it.

Some brown skinned men have appalling attitudes to women and commit heinous crimes. Some white skinned men do too. What you haven’t proved is if one group commit more crimes than the other.

You asked if calling a Muslim ‘gammon’ was racist 🤯

Those who missed @MarioIa posts - they are easy to find by scrolling back

Shame these knuckle dragging morons couldn't see their way to "protecting" the weak, the vulnerable and the needy who live under that flag isn't it ?

This doesn't make sense I didn't mention race